About Me

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I am the Pastor/Teacher of Rivers of Joy Baptist Church in Minford, Ohio since August 2008.  I am married to Charity since June 14, 1969.  I have four grown children.   Having served in the local church for over forty years as Pastor/Teacher, Asso., Youth Pastor, Minister of Education, Building Upkeep, Camp Director, Sunday School Teacher, etc. Also I have worked in the public place for as many years as I have preached. Charity and her sister are co owner of Union Mills Conf. (Bakery) in West Portsmouth Ohio


SOVEREIGN, SUPREME CONTROL OVER ALL EVENTS AND CIRCUMSTANCES
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"There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. He same to see Jesus by night, and said to Jesus:

Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no man can do these miracles that He does, except God be with Him."

Nicodemus was a ruler of the Jews, a Pharisee. He knew that Jesus was not a ordinary man, but a man from God. Nicodemus was a very religious man and leader.

Jesus said to Nicodemus, "Verily, verily, I say unto you: "Except a man by born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3

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"And God placed all things under His feet and appointed Him to be head over everything," Ephesians 1:22

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How vast, how numerous, how complicated are the various events and circumstances which attend the Christian here below, as he travels onward to his heavenly home! But if all things are put under Jesus' feet, there cannot be a single circumstance over which He has not supreme control. Everything in providence and everything in grace are alike subject to His disposal. There is not . . .a trial, a temptation, an affliction of body or soul, a loss,a cross, a painful bereavement,a vexation, a grief, a disappointment, a case, state or condition, which is not put under Jesus' feet. He has sovereign, supreme disposal over all events and circumstances. As possessed of infinite knowledge He sees them; as possessed of infinite wisdom He can manage them; and as possessed of infinite power He can dispose and direct them for our good and His own glory.How much trouble and anxiety would we save ourselves, could we firmly believe, realize, and act on this! If we could see by the eye of faith that . . .every foe and every fear,every difficulty and perplexity,every trying or painful circumstance,every looked for or unlooked for event,every source of care, whether at present or in prospect are all at His sovereign disposal, what a load of anxiety and care would be often taken off our shoulders! J.C. Philpot.

  • The story is told about a small town in the south. For many years, this town had been "dry" in that no alcohol was ever sold or served there. But one day a businessman in the area decided to build a tavern. In response to this new tavern, a group of Christians from a local church became concerned and planned an all-night prayer meeting to ask God to intervene. Shortly after the prayer meeting that night, lightning struck the bar and it burned to the ground. In the aftermath of the fire, the owner of the tavern sued the church, claiming that the prayers of the congregation were responsible for his loss. But the church hired a lawyer to argue in court that they were not responsible. After his initial review of the case the presiding judge began the trial with an official statement. He said: "No matter how this case comes out, one thing is clear: the tavern owner believes in prayer, and the Christians do not."

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We either believe like the tavern owner or like many Christians in this church. God is sovereign over all things or He is not in control of anything. Either we believe that God by His grace is the sole provider of salvation or you believe that He is not in control of who is going to be in the kingdom of God.



OFFICE AT WORK - Doctrine of Grace

Since October 2003 I have worked from this Gateway Computer and this desk in this room.
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First Baptist Church in Altoona first bought me a 40MH Memagitronic in 1985. And I still have this on my other desk. Many hours of typing sermons and lessons have been spend on this early computer. Many hours Charity would see my back typing notes when we moved to Portsmouth.
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Since 2003 on this Gateway AOL Window 98 I have research from many websites having filled many hours of study. Many hours typing on Corel WordPerfect put down thoughts and notes in studying the Word of God. Filling a number of three ring binders. Pictured is one of three bookcases of binders.
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I love to read books, but so many of the books are now on the web. And the best articles are graciously put on some wonderful web sites like The Highway, A Puritansmind, and CRTA.

My very best study was on the Doctrines of Grace. From Monergism.com there were over 255 articles on

  1. Total Inability/Total Depravity
  2. Unconditional Election
  3. Particular Redemption/Definte Atonement
  4. Irresistable Grace
  5. Perseverance of the Saints

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Just How Deep Did Adam's Race Fall?

  • We cannot know God's purposes in His Grace unless we know how far we have fallen. It is essential to know the Scriptural truth about our deadness, helplessness and rebellion if weare to understand how and why He saves us.
  • Our study showed that scriptures affirm authoritatively that nothing can reverse the human condition save the crucifixing of God in our nature. The cure reveals the seriousness of the "disease." Man is not fit to judge and diagnose his own case. Left to his reasoning, man will fail to assess his condition. Without an accurate diagnosis, men will settle for an ineffective cure.
  • By nature man believes that there is something he can do to recover himself. Grace is not grace unless it is sovereign and free.
  • God has used the "bulldozer" of His Law to remove any possibility of human merit from the face of the planet.
  • The message is clear of man's moral inability is actually conducive to a sense of urgency in seeking God.
  • And one's view of man's depravity is inseparable from one's view of God's grace.


A dear lady said to me this morning, "Its important that we do good, if we are going to get to heaven." We get to heaven on our merit of goodness? We are then most damned! So there is a need to learn what Scriptures speaks to this subject of Salvation.

Be sure to read and study the articles on "What Does It Mean to Be Born Again?"


I BROWSE THE INTERNET WHILE SITTING AT MY DESK AND WATCHING OPARAH WITH CHARITY


After a wonderful supper, Charity has made, after working all day at Unon Mills, and I have put in four hours at Mex-Itali. We sit down and I am on my Gateway. First I review my website http://hstrial-cwhisnant2.homestead.com/ I add some material and do some research for the site. Then I review this blog, this morning I posted part five of the series on Being Born Again. What does it mean to be a Biblical Christian.
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I am browsing and I hit several regular sites. Tonight I hit Jack Hammer. And his post was
"Christian Whirledview: Viewing the World through Wordly Eyes." Dave Mallinak posted this article. He refers to Christopher Hitchens. As I will do, I googled Hitchens. He said that CHRISTIANITY IS BAD FOR THE WORLD.


  • Hitchen is an outspoken atheist and antitheist. He has written a book "God is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, a massively best-selling book.

I then went to LAweekly.com/news, and read Dwayne Booth review with Hitchesn on the "Essential Stupiduity of Religion."

  • Hitchens describes himself as a believer in the Enlightenment values of secularism, humanism, and reason. Now that lead me to search the difinition of those terms. I will give you later.
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So while I am glancing at Oprah. I am listening to all the different people and subjects she has on the show.
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And I am researching the terms that Christopher Hitchens describes himself.
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HUMANISM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hitchens
  • Humanism :is a category of ethical philosophies that affirm the dignity and worth of all people, based on the ability to determine right and wrong by appeal to universal human qualities —— particularly rationality.[1][2] It is a component of a variety of more specific philosophical systems and is incorporated into several religious schools of thought.

  • Humanism entails a commitment to the search for truth and morality through human means in support of human interests. In focusing on the capacity for self-determination, humanism rejects the validity of transcendental justifications, such as a dependence on belief without reason, the supernatural, or texts of allegedly divine origin. Humanists endorse universal morality based on the commonality of the human condition, suggesting that solutions to human social and cultural problems cannot be parochial

SECULARISM

  • Secularism is generally the assertion that certain practices or institutions should exist separately from religion or religious belief. Alternatively, it is a principle of promoting secular ideas or values in either public or private settings. It may also be a synonym for "secularist movement". In the extreme, it is an ideology that holds that religion has no place in public life.

  • In one sense, secularism may assert the right to be free from religious rule and teachings, and freedom from the government imposition of religion upon the people, within a state that is neutral on matters of belief, and gives no state privileges or subsidies to religions. )

  • In another sense, it refers to a belief that human activities and decisions, especially political ones, should be based on evidence and fact rather than religious influence.

  • Secularism is not an argument against Christianity, it is one independent of it. It does not question the pretensions of Christianity; it advances others. Secularism does not say there is no light or guidance elsewhere, but maintains that there is light and guidance in secular truth, whose conditions and sanctions exist independently, and act forever. Secular knowledge is manifestly that kind of knowledge which is founded in this life, which relates to the conduct of this life, conduces to the welfare of this life, and is capable of being tested by the experience of this life.

The term "secularism" was first used by the British writer George Holyoake in 1846. Although the term was new, the general notions of freethought on which it was based had existed throughout history.

REASON

  • In western philosophy, reason has had a twofold history. On the one hand, it has been taken to be objective and so to be fixed and discoverable by dialectic, analysis or study

I watched Kansas U. win tonight, then watched Kentucky Wildcats lose a 23 point lead and finally won.

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Talked to Eric and finally got to bed.

.http://hstrial-cwhisnant2.homestead.com/

Good night



WHAT DOES IT MEAN BY THE TERM 'BORN AGAIN' OR THE NEW BIRTH?


part five
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We are not going to talk about the perfect Christian life or the legalistic living of some fundamentalist groups or even deal realistically with the failures of genuine Christians. But let’s deal with the claim by Barna that they who live indistinguishably from the culture are indeed born again.
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The report has done a good job in finding out the church is saturated by people who are not truly regenerated, saved, born again believers.
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THE TERM "BORN AGAIN."
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FIRST let’s look into this term "born again." Another word for "born again" I used in the last sentence. You could add to your terminology about one who has been saved is regeneration.
The idea here is to say this: Can we ascribe the Barna Group term "born again" as the kind of "born again" as the Scriptures use the term?
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Of course all of us have heard a number of people being "born again" in the wrong sense. Billie Jean King has been "born again,’ describing her new knee surgery. The west end of Portsmouth, Ohio has been born again.
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But what did the Scriptures intend when they used the term "born again?"
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What I would like to do is show just how glorious being born again really is. I want to show what really happens to those who have been saved, born again. and to show that it’s not man’s work that brings about the new birth. We do not make it happen. God makes it happen. It happens to us, not by us.

  • But it always happens through the preaching of the Word of God. 1 Peter 1:23.

  • BEING BORN AGAIN TAKES PLACE THROUGH THE GOSPEL 1 Peter 1:23.

If I ever tried to bring anything to the folks I preached to for twenty years it was to teach them what happens when one becomes born again.

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  1. When you are truly saved, regenerated, born again, in the grace and knowledge of what the Lord has done for you, your fellowship with God will be pleasing and your assurance that He is your Heavenly Father will be rich.
  2. The church of the Lord Jesus Christ will be better when we see the real deal of radical love and sacrifice and courage from the church and not all these counterfeit Christian that live just like the world.
  3. If you know what really happens to you in your salvation, you will appreciate God and His Spirit and His Son and His Word more exceedingly than you ever have. And He will be glorified.

If I ever had a theme while preaching it was showing people what happens when there occurs salvation, a new birth. If you want to know what a counterfeit dollar looks like, know what a real dollar looks like.
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So how does God’s act of regeneration work itself out? What are the effects of being born again?

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What changes? What is it like to live as a born-again person?
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WHAT TAKE PLACE IN THE NEW BIRTH

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    John 3:1-10
    "Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3:3 "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" Here is what this mean: We will not be saved; we will not be apart of God’s family, and not go to heaven, but instead will go to hell, when we are not born again.


  • Jesus didn’t have kind words about the religious Jewish leaders the Pharisees. Matthew 23:15 and 33. Eternity hangs in the balance when we are talking about this idea of being born again. "Unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God".
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YOU MIGHT BE ASKING, WHY ARE YOU DEALING WITH THE SUBJECT: AREN’T WE SAVED BY SIMPLY ASKING GOD TO COME INTO OUR HEARTS?
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  • Lordship salvation is confronting. When Jesus taught about this new birth He was confronting us with our despairing spiritual and moral and legal condition apart from God’s regeneration grace. Before we are born again. We are born again because first, we were spiritually dead. Secondly we were morally self-centered and defiant. Thirdly we were legally guilty before God’s law and under His wrath.
    You tell a person: "Jesus said you must be born again if you are going to see the kingdom of heaven, and you are unresponsive, corrupt, and guilty." That is rather comforting, wouldn’t you say. Quite unsettling.
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  • And in reality we can’t do anything about this condition that all men have. It’s not something we can do ourselves but something that is done to us. John 1:13 "who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God". And Peter says the same, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to HIS great mercy, He has caused us to be born again." I Peter 1:3. We do not produce in us this new birth. Here it is: God causes the new birth.


PAULINE GREENE WHISNANT AND EVERETTE THOMAS WHISNANT
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My mother will be 86 the Lord's willing in April 08
Dad would be 105, but he died in 1966
Mom and Dad were married for 22 years.
You as a child view life from a child's mind.
As I view my parents in those seventeen years, they were parents that I loved.
How I view my Dad and Mom is a view point that I have.
I believed they were nearly perfect.
But having children, can cause you as parents not to be so perfect.
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Dad from the time I was born until he died was pastoring churches. He preached all the time, we went to fellowship meetings all the time, he was always personally involved with people in the church and outside the church. He loved preachers, even preachers who were abused by other churches. He was loved by so many. People in the church loved him.
I believed that all preachers were just like Dad, which they all should be. But few are.
Dad has a story before I was ever born, since he was 44 when I was born. That story is for another day.
But I knew my Dad as the most wonderful husband, father to us, preacher, and friend.
Dad died after several heart attacks in 1966.
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Mom was playing the piano, organ, guitar, xylophone, etc. Mom was a great mother, she was a stay at home mother, i.e. she had the house always perfect. She had three meals a day for us. Also, she was the most wonderful Bible teacher for children ever. When I preached from the Bible I can envision in my mind those flannelgraph Bible stories. I still can hear Mom playing the piano.
She loved Dad; she helped him all the time.
Mom helped me spell "Indians."
But I must admit we drove Mom nearly crazy at times.
When Dad died in 1966, Mom was 42 years old and never had a public job while married. But in the next 42 years she has done remarkablly well. She chose not to remarry, breaking several men's hearts.
She now lives with my sister Ellen and while her health is not so good, she is still sharp in her mind and loves us all very much.
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And most of all the Loved the Lord Jesus Christ.
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FAMILY PICTURE OF EVERETTE T. WHISNANT 1948
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This picture of my brother Don and my self and Mom and Dad was taken in 1948. I am on the left. Don on the right. I believe Dad was pastoring in Lynchburg, Virginia. Those days I don't remember. My sister Ellen is researching some of the history in those days.
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I am finally learning how to use the Kodak M753 that my kids gave us for my 60th birthday. It occured to me last night to take some pictures of Dad and Mom and then post them on the blog. This was a challenge but as you can see I have accomplish this task. This could be good.
Bob Tempe, Sr. and Frankie Dawkins (Bob's niece) (Charity's dad)
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WHAT DOES SCRIPTURE MEAN BY "BEING BORN AGAIN?"
Born Again" Christians Just As Likely to BE LIKE and DO As Non-Christians
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Part 4
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WHY ALL HUMANITY NEEDS TO BE BORN AGAIN.
Or
WHY IS THERE A REQUIREMENT FOR A NEW BIRTH ENCOUNTER
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Almost all groups of people in the world believe in a "god" that they in some fashion worship. For every group of people there is a different idea of how they worship. Most groups believe there is an after-life and some place they will go when they die. And there are as many reasons and requirements to obtain a place in the after life as there are people groups.
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In American society today we see a number of different people groups, those from different countries, China, India, Russia, Cuba, Brazil, Mexico, Iraq. These groups have their own belief about "god" and how that "god" is to be worshiped and prayed to. They have their belief what that "god" requires them to be and do in order to obtain life in the hereafter.
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Today we are faced with the need more than ever in America to address this issue of who is this God that Christians worship, and His requirements for all mankind.
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With all these beliefs today we are seeing more people become confused, and having misgivings about what Christianity’s position is on what the Bible says about what is God’s requirement for a person to obtain Heaven.
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"Born Again Christians Just As Likely to ____________ As Are Non-Christians" Barna Group.
Ron Sider’s book said the same thing. This seems to be saying the evangelical church as a whole in America is seemingly not very unlike the world. What seems to be happening is that people go to church on Sunday and now Saturday and have an overlay of religion or Christianity but its religion is basically an add-on to the same way of life the world exists, not a radically revolutionizing power.
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The question is,.can the term ‘born-again Christian’ refer to or describe an American church-goer whose lives are interchangeable with the lifestyle of the world? Whose sin is as much as the world, and whose behavior instinctively is as the general behavior of the world, they covet things as greedily as the world, and they are entertained by the same movies and TV and games as the world is. They engage in the activities of the world as anyone else does. Put them side by side and they look like the same personality and behavior. They both might go to the same church. They both say they "made a personal commitment to Jesus Christ, and it’s still important in their lives today."And they believe when they die they will go to heaven. They say they are a Christan, they say Jesus Christ is important to them.
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The Barna Group takes them at their words, and say they are born again, and then this group will then say the reality is that these regenerated hearts have no more victory over sin than unregenerated hearts. In other words "Lordship Salvation" (a term John MacArthur uses) is not necessary for one to be described as born again)
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Here is what I am saying about the Barna Group’s report. They are right in what they discovered, they are wrong in the idea that they are born again Christians. I would say the church today is as worldly as the culture. What I am saying is Paul and James, and Peter and John think is precisely the antithesis about someone who is born again. They say those who have been born again will have a radical change in their lives.
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Yes we all sin, and yes it seems we all do things that our neighbors do, but it is not the lifestyle of the believer. There is going to be a radical change in the life of one who has been changed by the power of Jesus Christ.
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Note these verses I John 2:29
I John 3:9
I John 4:7
I John 5:4
I John 5:18
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ERIC AND LESLIE WHISNANT


Eric and Leslie have been married for two years and are living in Lexington, KY
Eric is my oldest son. Leslie's family live in Somerset KY

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FEBRUARY 20, 1966 EVERETTE T. WHISNANT, MY DAD DIED AT 62.

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I wish I could put a picture of my dad on this blog. Maybe when I can get the right equipment I can. Forty-two years ago in Roanoke, Virgiana dad died of several heart attacks. He was the pastor of the same church in Roanoke since 1950. Orange Ave, Williamsroad, Victory, then Roanoke Baptist Temple. Plus he was pastoring several others churches that was out in other areas. .

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Later I will write more about dad, I need to get some of the facts. Ellen is helping me do this to Ellen is working on Dad's and Momministry background.

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My brother Don e mail me tonight to affirm the date dad died. This led me to the google search. I end on the Raymond Whisnant'S Whisnant Surname Center. The search was on again. I had done this last year.

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This time I was looking for information about dad. His dad Lloyd Polycarp Whisnant, and mom Minnie Caroline Abernethy, our grandparents. Dad had two brothers, William Murphy Whisnant who passed away, and Uncle Joe E. Whisnant, who is living in Maryville, TN, and a sister Nellie Whisnant who passed away in 1997, she was 88.

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Nellie had a daughter June. I wanted to track her down, as it were. So I search the web. Scarry that you can do that. I was able to find her married name and found the phone number and called her. Well I had never talked to her, ever, she is 82 years old. Isn't that sad. She and her husband live in TN. In our talk she said she had visited Joe Whisnant, this week.

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So I hung up and found Uncle Joe number and called him. Uncle Joe is 82 years old but sounds like he is 50. We had a very nice visit on the phone. He and Jean have five children. Dwight, Lewis, Linda, Carol and Glen. Whom I haven't seen in forty years. Isn't that sad. When we were young kids we had come good times at the Whisnant / Abernethy dinners. Charity and I did visit Uncle Joe in Maryville, years ago. Goodness, that is really sad. But Uncle Joe keeps up with us by sending us his yearly Christmas Cards. I still remember th Christmas gifts he sent when we were babies.

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There are good number of Whisnant's in this country, and the sad reality I don't see or know only a hand full of them. Thanks to Raymond, we are able to at least keep up with them by his web site.

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I would love to link up with them via the Web or E mail. It would be nice to have a web site with email's, web sites, blogs, address, of the Whisnant's family.

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Hope you and your family are doing well. If any of the Whisnant's would like to give me their e mail I would love to write you a note.

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The picture of dad years before he died. I am not sure how old he was!

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TIM AND SHERRI WHEELER OWNERS OF MEX-ITALI RESTAURANT

http://www.mexitali.com/

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Portsmouth, Ohio
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Psalms 8:3-4
"When I consider Your heavens, the
work of Your fingers,
the MOON and the STARS
which You have ordained'
What is man that You are mindful of him?
and the Son of man , that you visited him?"
Amen
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Tiger Woods rallies to avoid Match Play stunner
Last Updated: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:05 PM ET
The Associated Press

Tiger Woods produced another incredible comeback in the desert Wednesday, playing the final five holes in five-under par to turn what looked like certain defeat into an unlikely victory in the Accenture Match Play Championship in Marana, Ariz.
Woods fell behind J.B. Holmes on the first hole when his tee shot sailed into the desert and out of play, and he was three holes down with five to play after taking another penalty shot from the desert.

But he turned it around quickly, winning the next four holes, capped by a 35-foot eagle putt on the 17th. He escaped with a one-up victory on the 18th when Holmes missed an eight-foot birdie putt.


"I just kept telling myself, even when I was three down, there's still a chance to win in regulation," Woods said. "I was just going to have to start playing a hell of a lot better. Then all of a sudden, putts started falling in from everywhere."
It started with a 15-foot birdie on the 14th, followed by a meaningless 18-foot birdie on the 15th, when he only needed two putts to win the hole. The first overhand fist pump came at the 16th when he made a third straight birdie from just over 20 feet to square it for the first time since they shook hands on the tee to start the match.

The loudest roar came on the par-five 17th, which Woods reached in two with a five-wood from the rough. He holed his long eagle putt for his first lead of the match, then held on to avoid what would have been a shocking departure.

Why Every Calvinist Should Be a Premillennialist, Part 1

[Discusses Sovereign Election, Israel, and Eschatology] 90-334
John MacArthur, Jr.



So I say, leave amillennialism to those kinds of people who do not believe in the sovereign unilateral irrevocable divine electing power of God. Leave it to the semi-Pelagians and Pelagians who go in and out of salvation. It makes sense for their theology. Israel sinned, you’re out. Israel sinned, the promises cancelled. Israel disobeyed the Law, you’re done. Israel crucifies the Messiah, that’s it. You forfeit everything and God gives it to somebody else, namely the church. And we hope the church can do better than Israel or the church will forfeit it all as well. So this is a classic perfect fit for Arminian theology.

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But for those who get it, for those who understand it, for those who embrace God’s sovereignty that He is the only one who can determine who will be saved and blessed and He is the only one who can save and bless, then saying that He cancelled promises to Israel because they didn’’t believe is completely inconsistent. How could they believe unless He caused them to believe? How could He hold them responsible for not believing? How could He hold any of us in one sense, responsible for not believing...we are responsible for our sin, but in the end we believe because He moves on us.

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Now why am I making a case for this? Because when you understand God’s purpose for Israel, you now have the foundation for all eschatology...all eschatology. You get your eschatology right when you get Israel right. You get Israel right when you get the Old Testament covenants and promises with Israel right. You get the Old Testament covenants and promises right when you get the interpretation of Scripture right. You get the interpretation of Scripture right when you’’re faithful to valid rules of interpretation. So you interpret it right and that will allow you to understand the meaning of the Covenants and the future of Israel, and God’s integrity is at stake. Over 200 times in the Bible God is called the God of Israel. Over two hundred times the God of Israel. There are over two thousand references to Israel in Scripture. Not one of them means anything but Israel. So if you say the promises of the Old Testament that refer to Israel really meant the church, you have no precedent for such an interpretation. Not one reference anywhere in Scripture and there are over two thousand, referring to Israel means anything other than Israel. There are 73 references in the New Testament, each of them refers to Israel.

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So here’s how to get the foundation for a good sound eschatology. Get election right. Get Israel right. You got it. Cause what that means is God does know the future, God has set the future and the future involves not only the glory of His church but the fulfillment of His elect people Israel with regard to everything that He promised that nation. And there are a lot of people who get the first one right, they get election right, and they don’t get Israel right and they are lost when it comes to eschatology. And I’m confident that God didn’t reveal prophetic truth in so much detail to hide anything, to obscure the truth, but to reveal it for our blessing, our motivation, and His glory. So my words to you are really very simple foundational words. I say this, if you want to understand what the Bible says about the future, get these two things right...the sovereignty of God in election, and the promises of that sovereign electing God to those people to whom He has elected...His redeemed church and Israel. Return the sovereignty of God in election to its rightful place, return the nation Israel to its rightful place, and your eschatology will unfold in beautiful clarity.




WHAT WE LEARN ABOUT THIS MATTER OF THE NEW BIRTH, BORN AGAIN

Part Three

There are several important questions we will be asking.


One is: What is the new birth? That is, what actually happens? What is it like? What changes? What comes into being that wasn’t there before?


Another question is: How does it relate to other things that the Bible says God does to bring us to himself and save us? For example, how does being born again relate to

  • God’s effectual calling ("Those whom he called he justified" Romans 8:30),
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  • The new creation ("If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation," 2 Corinthians 5:17),
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  • God’s drawing us to Christ ("No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him," John 6:44),
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  • God’s giving people to his Son ("All that the Father gives me will come to me," John 6:37),
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  • God’s opening our hearts ("The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul," Acts 16:14)

  • God’s illumining our hearts ("God. . . has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ," 2 Corinthians 4:6),
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  • God’s taking the heart of stone out and giving us a heart of flesh ("I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh," Ezekiel 36:26),
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  • God’s making us alive ("even when we were dead in our trespasses, [God] made us alive together with Christ," Ephesians 2:5),
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  • God’s adopting us into his family ("You have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry,‘‘Abba! Father!’" Romans 8:15).

How does God’s act of regeneration relate to all these wonderful ways of describing what happened to us when God saved us?

Another question we will ask is: Why is the new birth necessary? Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3:7, "You must be born again."

Another question we will tackle is how the new birth happens. If it is the work of God, which it is, how do I experience it? Is there anything I can do to make it happen?
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And a final question we must deal with is: What are the effects of being born again? What changes? What is it like to live as a born-again person?

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Millions in Church have not been Born Again. If the same as the Barna Group's.

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I am going to adopt this study from my research that I have gain from reading from John MacArthur, Sr. & John Piper, & John Calvin & Arthur Pink & Jonathan Edwards, and some Purtains preachers. And a few years of preaching on this subject. I seem to keep learning.
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One of the most intense study I have had is this subject of salvation. The purpose hasn't been because I have doubt about my salvation, far from it, but to give a clear understanding of what the Bible means when it says "Ye Must Be Born Again."


The more you learn about what God has done in this matter of our salvation the more you will know of how great this salvation is.

http://hstrial-cwhisnant2.homestead.com/


TEN YEARS AGO TODAY: DALE EARNHARDT SR. THE
INTIMIDATOR. WON THE DAYTONA 500



SEVEN YEARS AGO TODAY DALE LOST HIS LIFE ON THE FINAL LAP OF THE FINAL TURN OF THE RACE.

Remembering No. 3: Dale Earnhardt Sr., the winningest driver at Daytona International Speedway with 34 victories, nabbed his only Daytona 500 in 1998 in his 20th attempt.


During Sunday's race, Sprint Cup members of the team he founded, Dale Earnhardt Inc., stood on the pit wall on Lap 3, holding up three fingers to honor the 10th anniversary of his win.




We were living in Lexington, KY in 1998 and was watching the 500 when Dale won. Talking about being exicited, that was an understatement. I wanted to call Allen Barnhart in Altoona Kansas who was a fan too. But he recorded the race and went to work and after the evening church services would go and watch the race. So I had towait to call Allen.




We were living in Lexington KY, in 2001 and following the morning service, a group of us went over to a members home and we watched the 500. We left that day we did not know Dale was killed. It was only that evening when we returned to our house and was watching the news that we learned that Dale and been killed in the wreck.

http://hstrial-cwhisnant2.homestead.com/


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A WEDDING CAKE TO BEHOLD
Union Mills Bakery
Charity and I were married in 1969, and are wedding cake, well was made by Charity's mother as I recall. This was before Lenora started the bakery.
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The wedding cake shown here was made by Union Mills, "The Castle Cake." I am sure we could not have paid for such a beautiful cake.






READING BOOKS AND SERMONS, AND ARTICLES

I love reading, let me be clear, I love reading in order to gain knoweldge , understanding, and wisdom. I don't like reading for fun, or to relax. I like Charity to read out loud on trips. She will read an enjoyable book she likes. Charity likes to read for the enjoyment of the story she is reading. She will read a book almost every night.


Reading is good. Understanding what you are reading is better. Knowing how to read a book is best. How to read a book is not all that easy. You might not read the Bible the same way you would read Elwell's Evangelical Dictionary of Theology. When I am John MacArthur, Jr.'s book Faith Works, or The Gospel According to Jesus verses reading Jerry Falwell's Autobiography, or even Charles Spurgeon's biography "Spurgeon & Son" they would be different reading styles. When I read most books, I can't read without marking, and unlining key thoughts. For example: Walter C. Kaiser, Jr, "Toward An Exegetical Theology, Biblical Exegesis for preaching and teaching. This book is marked, written in, highlighted, and read and read read, and even outlined.



Any of Watchman Nee's books are read, slowly, a little at a time. the books are marked up a lot. So would reading Wayne C. Booth's book "The Craft of Research" slow, learning, put into practice and so forth. I am still reading it. The principles in this book takes practice, and practice.



I buy books when the need comes about. For example in 2007 when I was for a brief time the Christian Educational director at a church last year, I bought books on the Children's Ministry. I used those books as research for ministry. For example: George Barna's "Revolutionary Parenting". Along with about ten others books.



I bought Alexander Strauch's book " A Christian Leader's Guide to Leading With Love." and also the study guide. Then I down loaded "The Mentor's Guide to Bibical Eldership: Twelve lessons for Mentoring Elders" by Strauch and Richard Swartley. 150 pages by the way.
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When Charity and I were in Lynchburg, Virginia, the beautiful mountains of Virginia, my birth place, and home for eighteen years, last year, we were at the Thomas Road Baptist Church, visited with Jerry and Macel Falwell, Macel gave me "Building Dynamic Faith" by Jerry. Outstanding book to read.
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Then I also download books and papers from the web:

  • Christ-Centered Preaching: Preparation and Delivery of Sermons: Bryan Chapell & Covenant Theology Seminary: over one hundred pages.

  • Why I Am A Premillennialist: Pulpit Mazazine Blog: over one hundred pages

  • Dispensational Hermeneutics: Thomas Ice

  • Dispensationalism, The Church and The New Covenant: series of papers

  • The New covenant by John MacArthur

  • The Shepherd Conferences 2007 all sessions. Over one hundred pages

  • John Pipers's weekly sermons. All his sermons in 2007

  • John MacArthur, Jr. sermons. Over thirty sermons

  • Ray Pritcher's weekly sermons.

  • Apostolic Hermeneutics: many resources: ExpositoryThoughts.blog.

  • John Piper's The Future of Justification. Fifty pages

  • Vern Poythress's New Testament Worldview. Twenty five pages

  • The For the Gospel Conference. All the sessions.

Then there is the reading the bloggers of Bloggers and WordPress. The weblog number in the hundreds.

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As by father in law Bob Temple, Sr. says, "Charles your problem is, you learn and read so much, and you don't have an outlet to give it out, and that you get discouraged." And few want to hear it. People are not into Biblical language around here.

As an updated having visited Pulpit Magazine Blog

  • What is so interested I just took out this book from my library today, and posted the book on my blog. It was in 1983 when I was at the Shepherd Conference when there were only 300 men there. And the book I bought was “Toward An Exegetical Theology.” I flew out of LA X and was stranted in the Denver Airport for eight hours and I read this 265 pages book


I was so mad, because I had graduated from BBS in Bible, but I had never read such a book on preaching. So I went back home and begin developing the principles I recieved from the Shepherd’s Conference and John MacArthur, and this book by Kaiser. For the next thirteen years I begin to learn how to use the principles in this book. And in those thirteen years taught the Scriptures from a exegetical theological and build the sermon based on the scriptural text
I liked the opening remarks Kaiser said about Tenney, “I first learned the analytical method of exegesis and who instilled in me an insatiable love for the Scriptures and the idea of applying the rudiments of this method to Hebrew.”


Along with John MacArthur who helped me put into practice this method of knowing the Scripture and applying the prinicples when preaching.


Learning to preach that is totally Biblical in that it is guided by God’s Word in its origins, productive and proclamation.


By far the best book I have read on how to learn to preach.

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This has been good to put down. I will address more later.



http://hstrial-cwhisnant2.homestead.com/


check out my Web site



Charles








On the final lap, RYAN NEWMAN captialized on a critical drafting push from teammate Kurt Bush, swept past Tony Stwart on the outside of Turn three and houng on for his 13th career victory. And Roger Penske first victory in 23 tries atthe legnedary NASCAR race: DODGE WINS





Dale Earnhardt Sr. pictured here (as if that is needed)

JOHN NEWTON AMAZING GRACE

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TIM AND SHERRI WHEELER, OWNERS OF MEX-ITALI RESTAURANT



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"AMAZING GRACE (HOW SWEET THE SOUND) THAT SAV'DA WRETCH LIKE ME! I ONCE WAS LOST, BUT NOW .AM FOUND, WAS BLIND, BUT NOW I SEE." Newton


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Tim Wheeler I were talking about salvation and he brought up John Newton. John Newton wrote "Amazing Grace." For it is by grace that God saves anyone of us. Its an amazing story how God by His grace reaching down and opens our minds and spirit to bring us to salvation.
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Our topic has been this week: WHAT IS THE BIBLE'S MEANING OF BEING BORN AGAIN" As Jesus said to Nicodemlus in John chapter 3 Ye Must Be Born Again."

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A BRIEF STORY ABOUT JOHN NEWTON.


  • Amazing grace, how sweet the sound..." So begins one of the most beloved hymns of all times, a staple in the hymnals of many denominations, New Britain or "45 on the top" in Sacred Harp. The author of the words was John Newton, the self-proclaimed wretch who once was lost but then was found, saved by amazing grace.

Newton was born in London July 24, 1725, the son of a commander of a merchant ship which sailed the Mediterranean. When John was eleven, he went to sea with his father and made six voyages with him before the elder Newton retired. In 1744 John was impressed into service on a man-of-war, the H. M. S. Harwich. Finding conditions on board intolerable, he deserted but was soon recaptured and publicly flogged and demoted from midshipman to common seaman.
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Finally at his own request he was exchanged into service on a slave ship, which took him to the coast of Sierra Leone. He then became the servant of a slave trader and was brutally abused. Early in 1748 he was rescued by a sea captain who had known John's father. John Newton ultimately became captain of his own ship, one which plied the slave trade.
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Although he had had some early religious instruction from his mother, who had died when he was a child, he had long since given up any religious convictions. However, on a homeward voyage, while he was attempting to steer the ship through a violent storm, he experienced what he was to refer to later as his "great deliverance." He recorded in his journal that when all seemed lost and the ship would surely sink, he exclaimed, "Lord, have mercy upon us." Later in his cabin he reflected on what he had said and began to believe that God had addressed him through the storm and that grace had begun to work for him.
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For the rest of his life he observed the anniversary of May 10, 1748 as the day of his conversion, a day of humiliation in which he subjected his will to a higher power. "Thro’ many dangers, toils and snares, I have already come; ’tis grace has bro’t me safe thus far, and grace will lead me home." He continued in the slave trade for a time after his conversion; however, he saw to it that the slaves under his care were treated humanely.
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In 1750 he married Mary Catlett, with whom he had been in love for many years. By 1755, after a serious illness, he had given up seafaring forever. During his days as a sailor he had begun to educate himself, teaching himself Latin, among other subjects. From 1755 to 1760 Newton was surveyor of tides at Liverpool, where he came to know George Whitefield, deacon in the Church of England, evangelistic preacher, and leader of the Calvinistic Methodist Church. Newton became Whitefield’s enthusiastic disciple. During this period Newton also met and came to admire John Wesley, founder of Methodism. Newton’s self-education continued, and he learned Greek and Hebrew.
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He decided to become a minister and applied to the Archbishop of York for ordination. The Archbishop refused his request, but Newton persisted in his goal, and he was subsequently ordained by the Bishop of Lincoln and accepted the curacy of Olney, Buckinghamshire. Newton’’s church became so crowded during services that it had to be enlarged. He preached not only in Olney but in other parts of the country. In 1767 the poet William Cowper settled at Olney, and he and Newton became friends.

Ephesians 2:4-9
But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

  • Charles E. Whisnant


Note my page Articles

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ALL OF A SUDDEN "GOOD" PEOPLE COMMIT THE WORST OF CRIMES ! !


What does it mean when your are "BORN AGAIN"? Pt 2


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Do you ever wonder why 'good people' in the community are the very ones who commit the worst of crimes? How often have you said "it seems impossible that they would have done that awful crime?" You didn’t see it coming. They gave no outward evidences that they were capable of doing those things. Sometimes we will say, it must have been the medical drugs they were on. It must be the alcohol they started drinking.



Have you noticed that people will often defend their behavior as odd, and they were not themselves, or there was something that caused them to act in such a deleterious and harmful way? People can tell you stories how much they were nice and helpful to others, how they went to church, how they were caring to their dog. They will say they were under a lot of pressure at work, or at home or had been going through a number of failures.


Don’t we wonder how those young people who have all the money in the world, and fame, and fans of the world’s crowd, how they can be so self destructive? How often have we seen those young people self destruct and often leads to death. And the medical report will usually report, they died of an accidental overdose of medical drugs.


Recently we learned of a sixteen year old boy who shot his parents and brother and sister. The authority could find no clue as to why he did it. Apparently he just went off and without warning killed his family as if there was no apparent cause.


Why "all of a sudden" we think, will people do the worst of crimes?




Five times in the last week, someone has gone into a school or college and shot someone, and then shot themselves? 10 students have been killed. Why?




There are NO good people on the face of the earth. We are all sinners, we are all bad, and we are all deserve HELL. We need to be "born again."



There are moments that I would say to my self, "Could I do that?" Could I get so mad that I would shoot my wife, and stab her multiple times? Could I get so desperate that I would rob a bank?



Could I start using alcohol or overdose on medical drugs? Would I divorce my wife?


The answer: 2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore, if any man be in Christ he is a new (born again) creature old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new." That is regeneration. That is what God does in the life of one whom he has saved.



The series of articles I am doing "What Does It Mean To Be Born Again" i.e. what does it mean when we say some one is a Biblical Christian, or what does been saved mean. What happens to a person who has been saved?






WHAT DOES SCRIPTURE MEAN BY "BEING BORN AGAIN?"
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"Born Again" Christians Just As Likely to BE LIKE and DO As Non-Christians
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The Barna group made this survey:
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"(Ventura, CA) - Recent legislation, lawsuits and public demonstrations over the legality of gay marriage are just one battlefront regarding the institution of marriage. A new study released by The Barna Group, of Ventura, California, shows that the likelihood of married adults getting divorced is identical among born again Christians and those who are not born again. The study also cited attitudinal data showing that most Americans reject the notion that divorce is a sin. "
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The study identified those who had been divorced; the age at which they were divorced; how many divorces they have experienced; and the age at which the born again Christians had accepted Jesus Christ as their savior. Comparing the ages when divorced adults had accepted Christ and when they underwent their divorce, the researchers were able to determine both the impact of one’s faith commitment on the resilience of the marriage and whether the divorce occurred before or after their born again commitment. The survey also examined whether people believe that divorce is a sin in situations where adultery is not involved.
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Although Bible scholars and teachers point out that Jesus taught that divorce was a sin unless adultery was involved, few Americans buy that notion.
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Now my point is not divorce, but the term used "born again." What did the Barna Group mean by the term "born again?"
  • "Born again Christians" were defined in these surveys as people who said they have made "a personal commitment to Jesus Christ that is still important in their life today" and who also indicated they believe that when they die they will go to Heaven because they had confessed their sins and had accepted Jesus Christ as their savior. Respondents were not asked to describe themselves as "born again." Being classified as "born again" is not dependent upon church or denominational affiliation or involvement.

The same kind of statistics are given by Ron Sider in his book The Scandal of the Evangelical Conscience: Why Are Christians Living Just Like the Rest of the World? and by Mark Regnerus in his book Forbidden Fruit: Sex and Religion in the Lives of American Teenagers.

What I am picking up on here is precisely the term "born again." The Barna Group in particular uses it in reporting their research. So that report is titled "Born Again Christians

  • Just As Likely to Divorce As Are Non-Christians." Sider uses the word "evangelicals" but points out the same kind of thing: "Only 9 percent of evangelicals tithe. Of 12,000 teenagers who took the pledge to wait for marriage, 80% had sex outside marriage in the next 7 years. Twenty-six percent of traditional evangelicals do not think premarital sex is wrong. White evangelicals are more likely than Catholics and mainline Protestants to object to having black neighbors."

In other words, the evangelical, the Christians, (of all branches) church as a whole in America is seemingly not very dissimilar to the world. It goes to church on Sunday and has a enamel of religion, but its religion is basically an add-on to the same way of life the world lives, not a radically transforming power.

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A Profound Mistake

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Now I want to say blaring and clear that when the Barna Group uses term "born again" to characterize American church-goers whose lives are interchangeable from the world, and who sin as much as the world, and sacrifice for others as little as the world, and incorporate injustice as readily as the world, and covet things as greedily as the world, and enjoy God-ignoring entertainment as enthusiastically as the world—when the term "born again" is used to describe these professing Christians, the Barna Group is making a profound mistake.

  • It is using the biblical term "born again" in a way that would make it unrecognizable by Jesus and the biblical writers.

Note the definition that the researcher use for those who are said to be "born again."

  • In other words, in this research the term "born again" refers to people who say things. They say, "I have a personal commitment to Jesus Christ. It’s important to me." They say, "I believe that I will go to heaven when I die. I have confessed my sins and accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior."
  • Then the Barna Group takes them at their word, ascribes to them the infinitely important reality of the new birth, and then blasphemes that precious biblical reality by saying that regenerate hearts have no more victory over sin than unregenerate hearts.

For years in my preaching/teaching, I have said, those who are born again, have a different point of view then those who are not born again. Yes Christians, born again people do get a divorce. By point in this series of articles is: ARE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS JUST LIKE THOSE WHO ARE NOT CHRISTIANS IN THEIR BEHAVIOR AND ATTTITUDE?

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How does the Scripture describe a "born again" person?

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I’m not saying their research is wrong. It appears to be right. I am not saying that the church is not as worldly as they say it is. .

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I am saying that the writers of the New Testament think in exactly the opposite direction about being born again. Instead of moving from a profession of faith, to the label "born again," to the worldliness of these so-called born again people, to the conclusion that the new birth does not radically change people, the New Testament moves the other direction. It moves from the absolute certainty that the new birth radically changes people, to the observation that many professing Christians are indeed (as the Barna Group says) not radically changed, to the conclusion that they are not born again. The New Testament, unlike the Barna Group, does not defile the new birth with the worldliness of unregenerate, professing American Christians.

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We will review what the New Testament means by "born again."

ATTRIBUTES OF A BIBLICAL CHURCH

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Are you tired of churches trying so hard to "entertain the lost" in their worship services that they’re forgetting to "feed the sheep?" Are you tired of churches whose agendas and traditions trump the Word of God?



Maybe you’re looking for a church that is striving to be what God told us to be, and that is “The Church of the Living God, the Pillar and Ground of the Truth" (1 Timothy 3:15). If the latter describes you, then this Baptist Church might just be what you’re looking for!



"Wherever we see the Word of God purely preached and heard, there a church of God exists, even if it swarms with many faults."- John Calvin

  1. The Bible is inerrant and infallible: "All Scripture is breathed out by God" 2 Timothy 3:16 That is the Bible is true 100%. God can be known! Truth can be known.
  2. The Bible is the guide for all faith and practice. "and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
  3. God has called each Christian to share the Bible and God's teachings (evangelize) "God therefore and made disciples....Matthew 28:19-20. Every Christian is called to share with others the Gospel with others.
  4. Jesus Christ is God in human flesh. "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1
  5. All people are eternally lost; salvation is by faith alone, by Jesus Christ alone, by God's grace alone. Ephesians 2:8-9
  6. The glory of God is the motive of the church ministry. I Corinthians 10:31

HERE IS A PRACTICAL APPLICATION TO WHAT I BELIEVE WOULD BE A BIBICAL CHURCH'S DESIRE. A focus on people.

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When God speaks through song, sermon or prayer we want us to stop……and pray, repent and seek reconciliation to God and others. We want people sitting and praying with one another after a service or crying together in joy or pain to be a standard picture of how much we care for one another. We want to pray for the sick, doubting, confused, depressed or tired. We desperately need to provide avenues for people to partake of the graces of God, not just hear about them. People hear about the compassion of Jesus every week, but how many experience it through the ministry of the local church? People hear that God longs to connect to them and teach them but how many hear from God through godly counsel? It is our job as a local church to see this happen and to build a team of experienced, caring people to care for the family of God.

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I believe this kind of desire for a church fellowship would cause members to share the gospel with others and invite them to come to their church.

HAVE YOU WONDERED WHY MEMBERS DO NOT INVITE OTHER PEOPLE TO ATTEND THEIR CHURCH? pt 2




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Of course this is not true in some churches, but in many churches members may go for years and never invite another person to come with them to visit their church..

Why do some churches have a difficult time seeing visitors come, and if they do come, they don't say very long?


There is a sample of some responses to this problem:
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A survey of responses to this questions were:



  1. Its pretty simple. If people love being there then they will invite others to share that experience. If they are only there because they feel the have to be there even though they hate being there then it makes no sense at all to invite others.


  2. maybe it’s to hun drum and do not want to bore other people, or no one wants to invite anyone to a troubled church, or they are just plain lazy, if the works of god is going on in a church you could not keep people away. there would be standing room only. hey no power no people, if it is just a form of godliness but they are denying the power there of , what do you really expect. if a church is full you can believe the works of god is going on or they are making a lot of people feel good about how they live,


  3. For starters, I generally won’t invite someone if I know they’re already attending another church; the main exception would be if I know they have a particular need that isn’t being addressed there and is likely to be (better) addressed at a different church.
  4. If I’m going to invite someone to church, I want to be sure that is the right "next step" for them; I don’t want to give the impression that the church will meet their needs, but rather that it is a relationship with God that is ultimately needed. Relationships with His people are vitally important, but secondary nonetheless.
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  5. Final point: we should never be afraid to invite someone to a church other than ours. My church may not be the best fit for Joe, but if he needs to plug in somewhere, I want to be able to refer him to another church that will be a better fit. That means I need to do some homework about other churches in the area.
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  6. Part of this is of course laziness, or church irrelevance. But let me question the analogy of the concert a little bit. Whether or not outsiders are invited to ‘church’ is a function of what we think the Sunday service is. If it’s primarily an ‘event’, then yes, properly orchestrated, it should cause members to invite others.
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  7. But if it is primarily a gathering of believers, the fact that non-believers aren’t systematically invited may be a sign of health. We don’t invite nonbelievers to take communion, because it presupposes the appropriate response to God’s invitation to become a part of his people has already been taken (viz. baptism).
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  8. It’s of course possible that ‘church’ is a little bit of both (event AND gathering of believers), but lack of clarity on this point will mean regular attenders will be wary of inviting outsiders. I also want to suggest that if church services are taken to be the gathering of believers, then ‘outreach’ needs to happen in a different manner. I’ll let you imagine just what that might look like……
    ashamed would be the biggest issue!!
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  9. I agree with you. Not to be too cynical, but I think churches that lack excellence in their services tend to make excuses more than adjustments. Too often when something is called less than great, the accusation is attacked rather than heard and examined.
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  10. I don’t think that every critique needs to be taken to heart, but if it is coming from an involved, invested, and committed individual, than it needs to be prodded for more detail. If more churches did this, there would be a better dialogue on how to be more effective and visitor friendly at our services, and more effective at making an impact spiritually when people are there.
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  11. I will probably get some grief for this comment, but one of the things that often makes it difficult to invite friends to church is the quality of music that is presented…… for me, bad music is embarrassing is all……
    more often than not, the bad music comes as a result of a worship team (aka "a worship band") trying to present music that is beyond its level of expertise…
  12. .
  13. if i, as a regular attendee, feel "on edge" or nervous because i am just not sure what sounds will emanate from the singers or instrumentalists who are leading me, i just have second thoughts before i would subject my unchurched friends to the same… "special music" can be even worse, but we don’t have to go there just now……
    that being said, having myself been involved in leading worship and presenting music, without intending to, i may have become overly critical or overly analytical… i recognize that (including myself) every worshiper brings his/her own attitude to the service, and that attitude affects how the worshiper feels about the experience……
    additionally, i would say that about 50-60 % of worshipers don’t even notice "bad music", so for them, it is a non-issue…… all in all, it seems to me that worship music "style"" is less important to many participants than the "quality"… (what i mean by that is that although i prefer modern or contemporary worship music, i personally would choose old hymns "done well", over contemporary music "done mediocrely")…
    if worship teams and bands would stick to what they are able to do well, i personally would find it easier to invite unchurched friends to the service……
  14. The Lord has many ways in which He can be worshipped, but it really starts with God, working through us, to express Himself in us.