About Me

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I am the Pastor/Teacher of Rivers of Joy Baptist Church in Minford, Ohio since August 2008.  I am married to Charity since June 14, 1969.  I have four grown children.   Having served in the local church for over forty years as Pastor/Teacher, Asso., Youth Pastor, Minister of Education, Building Upkeep, Camp Director, Sunday School Teacher, etc. Also I have worked in the public place for as many years as I have preached. Charity and her sister are co owner of Union Mills Conf. (Bakery) in West Portsmouth Ohio

HOW SHOULD CHRISTIAN PARENTS RESPOND TO HALLOWEEN AND VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES.

The Christian Response to Halloween and Violent Video Games?
So, how should Christians respond?


HOW SHOULD THE GOSPEL IMPACT VIDEO GAMING?

  • How many parents in our churches have children that play regularly violent video games?

  • How does Scripture address video games? You will not discover "video games" in Proverbs or Ephesians?

This is the "terminus" of this article:

WHEN A CHILD DIES, IN THE WOMB OR AT BIRTH, OR IN THE FEW YEARS AFTER BIRTH , THEY GO TO HEAVEN?
part ten

This is the finishing point to this article:

THOSE THAT DO NOT HAVE THE CAPACITY TO BELIEVE IN OR REJECT CHRIST AS SAVIOR CANNOT BE CONDEMNED BUT MUST BE SAVED UNTO ETERNAL LIFE
Even if the parents are not Christians, children will go to Heaven.
  • If we are only punished for "actual sin" and not imputed sin, it would stand to reason that we are only rewarded for "actual righteousness" and not imputed righteousness.

  • That’s one of the problems I have with going beyond the Scripture and proclaiming all dead infants go to Heaven.
  • "If we are only punished for "actual sin" and not imputed sin, it would stand to reason that we are only rewarded for "actual righteousness" and not imputed righteousness."

  • And you are absolutely right. Reason would demand every fallen sinful person be justly condemned for their imputed sin. But this does not take into consideration the grace of God, by which any are saved. Christ’s imputed righteousness is an actual righteousness, that God condescends to apply to His elect. We are not "rewarded" at all. Rather we receive mercy in place of justice.
  • There is no violence offered to either the grace of God or the justice of God in my position. The fact that God graciously reserves His wrath for positive sinful and willful disobedience manifests both His justice and His mercy.
A few web sites on this subject:
http://www.galatians5.com/Baby.htm
Did My Baby Go To Heaven?
http://radongas.blogspot.com/2006/06/response-to-john-stebbe-infant.html
A Response to John Stebbe - Infant Salvation
http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/children.htm
CHILDREN - DO THEY GO TO HEAVEN?
http://www.albertmohler.com/commentary_read.php?cdate=2005-01-05
In the Shadow of Death--The Little Ones Are Safe With Jesus
http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/06/04/the-age-of-accountability/
"The ""Age of Accountability"
http://tonykummer.wordpress.com/2005/11/25/childhood-conversion-and-age-of-accountability-part-1-introduction/
Responses to "Childhood Conversion and Age of Accountability"
http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/search?query=%22Baby%22
A picture of baby in womb
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This has been a long article, and I am sure raises a lot of good questions about the subject of children.
Thanks for the emails that I have received about this article. If you would like the whole article in one post. I have Corel word perfect and would be glad to e mail the article to you.

WHAT HAPPENS TO THE BABY WHEN THE BABY DIES IN THE WOMB?
Charles E. Whisnant

It’s true that children are born sinners -- their death does prove that. But never being able to understand the truth; and therefore, consciously reject it and choose rebellion, they have no record against them in the books of God. Thus constitutes a marvelous and vast opportunity for sovereign grace to operate, apart from any works at all.

SUMMARY:
  • All children who die before they reach the condition of accountability (footnotes)
  • The Book of Life records everyone from conception on. This book indicates that all men are potentially able to go to heaven from the point of conception unless they reach the capacity of understanding and rejecting the gospel of faith alone in Christ alone.
  • SINS ARE NOT TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT UNLESS THERE IS A CONSCIOUSNESS OF COMMITTING SINS
  • SCRIPTURE INDICATES THAT CHILDREN AND OTHERS BEFORE THE AGE OR WITHOUT THE CAPACITY OF ACCOUNTABILITY DO GO TO HEAVEN
  • THOSE THAT DO NOT HAVE THE CAPACITY TO BELIEVE IN OR REJECT CHRIST AS SAVIOR CANNOT BE CONDEMNED BUT MUST BE SAVED UNTO ETERNAL LIFE

There is "life" in the womb. From day one to birth there is life placed there by God.
When that child dies at any point before birth and anytime before that child comes to the condition whereby they understand their sin and corruption.

Whereby these children are in my thinking (through a careful study of Scripture and studying those who are 100% more knowledgeable of the Word than I am, such as John MacArthur, BB Warfield, Al Mohler, etc. and the Internet for sites on the scientific data) graciously saved eternally by God through the work of Jesus Christ, being elect by sovereign choice, innocent of willful sin, rebellion, and unbelief, by which works they would be justly condemned to eternal punishment. Thus I believe Scripture teaches when an infant dies, is elected to eternal salvation and eternal heaven.

Footnotes:
R.A. Webb
June 2007
  • "His (Servetus’) third point is, That all who believe not in the Son remain in death, the wrath of God abideth on them (John 3:36); and, therefore, infants who are unable to believe lie under condemnation. I (Calvin) answer, that Christ does not there speak of the general guilt in which all the posterity of Adam are involved, but only threatens the despisers of the gospel, who proudly and contumaciously spurn the grace which is offered to them. But this has nothing to do with infants. At the same time, I meet him with the opposite argument. Every one whom Christ blesses is exempted from the curse of Adam, and the wrath of God. Therefore, seeing it is certain that infants are blessed by him, it follows that they are freed from death." ~ Calvin, Institutes, Bk 4

NOTE: The original quote appearing at the top of this article has been replaced because I could not independently verify it’’s authenticity. My copy of Calvin’’s Institutes does not contain it. In place of it is a quote I have verified is in Calvin’s work. I must add though, Calvin does not appear consistent in his view concerning the state of all infants, and should be used carefully when being used as a reference. Thank you.

Calvin seems to assert something of the same Scriptural logic I’ve been trying to convey in my original post on infant election. Namely, that the Lord condemns and punishes actual sin, not our original sin state. I heartily affirm the doctrine of Original Sin. We are radically corrupt, totally depraved and completely helpless towards our salvation without the monergistic work of God regenerating our souls. And nothing I believe about the salvation of infants contradicts this blessed truth. Infants are saved by the grace of God. The saving work of Christ is applied to them and they are "counted" as righteous based solely upon the finished work of Jesus Christ, just like anyone else who is ever redeemed.

Over and over again the precepts of the Word tell us God graciously reserves His wrath for those who commit actual, willful sin. Calvin, in the quote above, contrasts those able to commit "actual sin" with infants who, though fallen by nature, aren’t willingly and knowingly committing sinful acts. This is the testimony of Scripture as well.

Rev. 20:12-13, And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."

God opened up the books of judgment, and condemned the reprobate according to the deeds they have done in the flesh. His wrath was against their willful "sinful acts" to use Calvin’s words. Infants have not the moral capacity to judge good and evil (Deut 1:39). Likewise, Romans 4:15 says "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression." There is no conscious transgression of the law in infants, therefore no wrath. John reaffirms this stating,
"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." I Jn 3:4

No transgression - no guilt of sin. So infants dying in infancy, have yet to act upon their sinful wills in a sinful manner, transgressing the law and thus bringing upon themselves condemnation. R. A. Webb said this concerning the damnation of infants;


  • "If a dead infant were sent to hell on no other account than that of original sin, there would be a good reason to the divine mind for the judgment because sin is a reality, but the child’s mind would be a perfect blank as to the reason of its suffering. Under such circumstances, it would know suffering, but it would have no understanding of the reason for its suffering. It could not tell itself why it was so awfully smitten and, consequently, the whole meaning and significance of its sufferings, being to it a conscious enigma, the very essence of the penalty would be absent, and justice would be disappointed, cheated of its validation."
Scripture always connects eternal condemnation to the sinner’s deeds, their works. In John 8:21 and 24 Jesus says of the most important damning work, "Because you believe not in me, you will die in your sins and where I go, you’ll never come." The greatest of all the sinners’ evil works is unbelief. And active unbelief is always singled out as the primary damning sin. John 3:36 says, "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who doesn’t obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." Earlier in the chapter, he says, "You don’t believe, you don’t believe, and because you don’t believe, you’re condemned. You’re condemned if you don’t believe and when you don’t believe, you don’t obey."

Salvation then is by grace completely apart from works. Damnation is by works completely apart from grace. Though we would be justly condemned for our original state of unrighteousness, God sovereignly and graciously condescends to reserve His wrathful judgment and eternal perdition for those whose own works of unrighteousness condemns them.

Comments from this article next time
TODAY I AM SIXTY YEARS OLD: THAT IS 60: A FOOTNOTE
Updated

^

Footnote: Today I am 60. Now that is old. Of those 60 years I have been saved by the grace of Christ for 52 years. My dad preached and mom played the piano from the first day I was born in Lynchburg Virginia. Dad started churches. He would go to a town with the old gospel tent and set up and preach for a month or two or three months. From those meeting a group of people would establish a church. In Lynchurg, dad started three churches. My sister Ellen Samples is researching the information about dad's work. More of Ellen's research if forth coming. I understand there is a connection between Thomas Road Baptist Church and Jerry and Macel Falwell. To which I proudly say.


My dad was 42 years old when I was born and had been in ministry for some 20 years. He had already started churches in North Caroline. In 2000 I received a call from a family in Ashville, N.C. to tell me the church my father started back in the 1940's was still doing very well. I wish I could give a bio on my dad and mom.


Dad died in 1966 while pastoring the Roanoke Baptist Temple, where I was the Youth Director. I had been teaching the youth class for 27 months when dad died. Following dad's death, I didn't feel I was ready to pastor the church. I was in shock when dad died, I don't remember a lot. Later that year I attended Fellowship Baptist Church where Gene Arnold pastored, and then later mom moved to Danville Virginia to work with Bob Barber at the Baptist Tabernacle.
*
While in Danville, I talked to Dr. Wayne Martin and in August of 1966 I went to Arlington Texas to attend the Bible Baptist Seminary. Dr. Earl K. Oldham, Dr. Raymond Barber, Dr. George L. Norris, Mrs. Martha Norris. Mrs. Helen Barber, and Bro. Bobby Cunningham, oh Dr. Walker Moore and Dr. Luther C. Peak. Some of the best men, preachers, and teachers that one could have ever have.
In 1969 I attended Gideon Baptist Church (Dr. Norris) and worked in the Bus Ministry and Children's Church with Charity. In 1968 I meet my wife Charity Mucha (Temple) and was married in June 1969.
*
We moved to Wooster, Ohio in 1970, our first son, Eric was born in 1971.
Mr. and Mrs. Richard Clark and Linda Shelton
Bill Rinehart and Dave Greegor and family
*
In 1971 we moved to Mindford Ohio and pastored the Madison Baptist Church a little over three years.
Mr/Mrs Everette Vest and Sharon, and all the family
Mr/Mrs Randy Barkley and family
Too name just a few
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In 1974 we were the Youth/ Education/ Ass. Pastor at Victory Baptist Church in Portsmouth, Ohio.
Ted Colley, Steve Euton, Ray Harris, Frankie and Leath Lestmaster
only to name a few of many.
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Moved to Grapevine Texas, (FBC of Haltom City) then to Perrysville/Mansfield, Ohio, Pleasant Valley Ranch and Mansfield Baptist Temple (Tommy Leatherwood) Becky my daughter was born in Grapevine 1976.
Randy Webb
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In 1977 moved to Connersville, Indiana, Calvary Baptist Church.
I was back in Connersville in 2007 and visited with some of the same folks who were in the church in 1977-79
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In 1979 moved to Ceder Lake, Indiana, attended FBC of Hammond and Hyles Anderson.
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In March 1980 moved to Altoona, Kansas to pastor the FBC on Main Street until July 1996.
Chad my second son was born in 1980 and Kyle was born in 1984 and our last child died before birth.
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Almost seventeen years of close fellowship with folks in FBC. Let me see, I could name so many of the wondeful friends Charity and I and Eric, Chad and Becky, and Kyle had.
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In July 1996 moved to Lexington, KY and Charity was staff secretary for five years at Ashland Ave. Baptist Church, and I was Building Manager and Adult teacher.
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I attempted to pastor a church for a brief time in 1999, failed. Then again in 2000 attempted to pastor a church, while we had over 100 visitors in the first three months, we failed again.
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Moved to Portsmouth Ohio in March 2001, and was co pastor until we were ask to leave by the pastor, who left a few months later. Charity and her sister Debbie have the Union Mills Bakery.
We had some very good friends at the church.
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Today I am in the Bigelow Church, in Porstmouth Ohio, since November 2003. Today I am working in the Christian Education, Children's Ministry.
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I had from 1966 to 2003 not only being a pastor/teacher, dad, husband, but worked in the work forced.
The number of places I haved worked would take up too much room to mention.
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I became a blogger in August 2006. I became an Internet Bible Study student in October 2003.
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So for the last forty two years I have been engaged in church ministry and the work place and being a husband for thirty eight years and father for thirty seven. Life is good..
*
The Lord has been so very good to Charity and I. Praise the Lord for His wonderful love to us. His salvation is so good.
DO CHILDREN, FROM CONCEPTION TO BIRTH TO WHEN:
GO TO HEAVEN WHEN THEY DIE?
^
(or those mental handicapped)
^
LITTLE CHILDREN DON’T HAVE A RECORD
Part Eight
^
In the book of Jonah, God had compassion on Nineveh, a city of more than 120,000 persons who did not know the difference between right and wrong. They were mentally incapable of understanding truth. And God has compassion on that condition.

  • Cf. Deuteronomy 1:39 These little children do not have knowledge of good and evil. Cf. Isaiah 7:16 They haven’t reached that condition of accountqbility.


Here is the idea: A child that dies, do not have a record because they have not committed any evil works. There has not been a conscious act of rebellion and iniquity. Only God knows at what time in life a person comes accountable.


And those who have died before this point, have been guarded by God’s providence from committing those deeds, those responsible acts of sin by which they would be condemned.


Scripture teaches judgment is based on the grounds of deeds of sin. While it’s true they are sinful, by nature. But the account against them that condemns is their deeds. God doesn’t charge people with real sins until they have really committed them. Interesting isn’t it.


Babies have no record of sin being committed. Thus, babies that die, are ELECTED and enter into the glory of Heaven.


In 1907 R.A. Webb wrote (note footnotes:)

  • "If a dead infant were sent to hell on no other account than that of original sin, there would be a good reason to the divine mind for the judgment because sin is a reality, but the child’s mind would be a perfect blank as to the reason of its suffering. Under such circumstances, it would know suffering, but it would have no understanding of the reason for its suffering. It could not tell itself why it was so awfully smitten and, consequently, the whole meaning and significance of its sufferings, being to it a conscious enigma, the very essence of the penalty would be absent, and justice would be disappointed, cheated of its validation."


It’s true that children are born sinners -- their death does prove that. But never being able to understand the truth; and therefore, consciously reject it and choose rebellion, they have no record against them in the books of God. Thus constitutes a marvelous and vast opportunity for sovereign grace to operate, apart from any works at all.

NOTE: This article has been to this point 16 pages on my notes, I have just about five more pages on this lengthy article. We have had some good e mails regarding this article, and some personal comments given to us about the helpfulness of this article. My e mail is CWhisna@aol.com


The Lord Must Grant You Inward Sight
^
To behold Jesus, to adore him, and to rejoice in his praises are not means to higher ends. Fixing the eyes of our souls upon the Lamb of God, and bowing before him in joyful, loving worship is the highest end of our existence, the only fully satisfying expense of the human heart, the chief ingredient of human blessedness. "That I may know him . . ." (Philippians 3:10) and enjoy him forever is the end for which every saint lives.

Perhaps some will read [this] who have never detected any glory in Christ Jesus. "He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in him that we should desire him". (Isaiah 53:2) is your testimony. You look at the fullest objective revelation of the Son of God in the New Testament, but you say, 'Ichabod',- where is the glory? You think there is nothing special about Christ. You are not drawn to him.

If you find no loveliness in Christ, that fact should alarm you. Paul commented about those who, in the full light of the revealed glory of God, saw no beauty: "If our gospel is hidden, it is hidden to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ" (2 Corinthians 4:3-4). When you stand beneath the unclouded noonday sun but can see no light, it is a shocking exposure of yourself. You are blind. You cannot see the obvious light. If you detect no wondrous majesty and captivating loveliness in Christ, you are spiritually blind. You are perishing!
"We have seen Jesus' glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth" (John 1:14). "He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him" (john 1:10). For the blind and undiscerning, more is required than full, plain, objective revelation of the glory of god in the person of Jesus Christ. Along with the divinely given light in Christ before your eyes, the Lord must grant you inward sight to receive the light.

We who are Christians can recall when we heard so much about the Son of God but saw no radiant nobility in him. But "God who said 'Let light shine out of darkness', made light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" (2 Corinthians 4:6). The truth of Christ was given to the angry Saul of Tarsus as he dragged Christians off to prison. The splendor of Christ was set before Saul. But this man talks about another day "when God was pleased to reveal his Son in me". (Galatians 1:15-16).

If any who see no glory in Christ Jesus read [this] about him, my prayer is that He who commanded light to shine out of darkness in the first creation will, in connection with the objective revelations of Scripture, shine in your heart to give you, in a new creation work, the knowledge of the glory of God. This glory is the face of Jesus Christ. May you see it. May God who has revealed his Son to you be pleased to reveal his Son in you.

Quoting Walter Chantry .
Every Christian needs to be disciple and understand the disciplines of Christian living.
^
"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto US which are saved, it is the power of God."
^
I Corinthian 1:18
^
1 John 2:6, we ought to walk as He walked, putting our feet in His footprints, loyal to the divine will. It's a life pattern.

Discipleship is teaching the disciplines of Jesus Christ. I believe teaching the Word of God is by far the best way in making disciples. Jesus model what it meant to be a Christian, but it was His teaching and the work of the Holy Spirit that brought about discipleship.
John gives this crucial lesson. And so we hear our Lord say in John 12, "Verily, verily I say unto you, except a grain of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone. But if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal."

DID MY CHILD GO TO HEAVEN?
WHAT HAPPENS TO THE BABY WHEN THE BABY DIES IN THE WOMB?
Charles E. Whisnant
part seven

Personal Note:
  • Good morning, Charity worked until 10 p.m. last night, the girls had two wedding cakes and two full sheet cakes for today. Plus they have an order for 100 dozen cookies for Tuesday. Charity was back at work this morning by 5 a.m. They had 35 cakes for today. I am sitting here at my desk getting read to post part seven. Later this morning I have some lawncare mowing at the bakery and Mexi. Plus I am working four hours today at Mexi.


THERE ARE SEVERAL POSITIONS ON THIS ISSUE TAKEN TO GET INFANTS IN HEAVEN


Some will contend that God by his nature will not be willing to let millions or billions of helpless infants go to hell.

Another view we need to thank Martin Luther: "Well, the baby can’t believe, so surrogate faith on the part of the parents is rendered in their behalf." So, baptized babies will be saved. The Lutheran Augsburg Confession on baptism.

  • This view is also held by Anglicans and Episcopalians and several reformed groups, as well as the Roman Catholic Church.
  • "By Christian baptism, one enters into the Kingdom of God into the sphere of the saving work of Christ."

Let’s make this clear (well as clear as I can) No view of infant salvation which denies original sin and total depravity is true. Babies are not really free from sin. They are sinners.


Sending babies to hell does not protect the doctrine of salvation either.


OKAY, if infants are saved when they die, what identification is required for their salvation?

  • Those that die in the womb, those who are born dead, the retarded, those who have little understanding in the matters of salvation - if they are saved when they die, by what means are they saved?
  • BY THE SACRIFICIAL WORK OF JESUS CHRIST, BECAUSE THAT IS THE ONLY MEANS THAT ANYBODY CAN BE SAVED.


Here is what John MacArthur says:

  • God has predestined all He wills into salvation, including those in infancy. That salvation is by His sovereign choice through grace alone. Though all infants deserve eternal judgment because of their guilt and corruption, their sins were paid for by the substitutionary sacrifice of Christ on the cross in which He bore the wrath of God, not only for all who could believe, but for all who could not believe. I really believe that only those who understand true reformed theology can grasp the redemption of little ones, which fits so beautifully because it’s all of sovereignty and it’s all of grace."

  • Here is what B.B. Warfied says:
  • The destiny of infants who die is determined irrespective of their choice by an unconditional decree of God suspended for its execution on no act of their own and their salivation is wrought by an unconditional application of the grace of Christ to their souls through the immediate and irresistible operation of the Holy Spirit prior to and apart from any actions of their own proper wills.
  • If death in infancy does depend on God’s providence, it is assuredly God in His providence who selects this vast multitude to be made participants of His unconditional salvation. This is but to say that they are unconditionally predestined to salvation from the foundation of the world.
  • "If this be true, that an infant child, a child in the womb is saved by this grace of Christ, then the Arminian way is not effective. That is to say, salvation is ALL of God of grace, and that would account for the salvation of these children in the womb as well."

Some say, "These children didn’t believe." They couldn’t believe. And therefore in God’s mercy and grace and sovereign election, through the sacrifice of Christ and His resurrection which is freely implemented to them, they are guided into God’s kingdom.


The reason that people are damned is by their works. The Bible teaches that all condemned sinners merited their eternal punishment by their sins.

  • Cf. Revelation 20:11-12
    Cf. John 5:12
  • The Judgment seat is about the judgment of peoples "deeds". "Works".
    God has a complete record (pre-computer days) of every sin of every sinner who has ever lived (that is a lot of people) and it’s on those records that they will be condemned. The record establishes the sins of the sinners and that record will condemn them.


LITTLE CHILDREN DON’T HAVE A RECORD

next time

DO CHILDREN GO TO HEAVEN AND WHAT DOES THE WORD SAY?
Part Six
^
Pre- comment first:

  • Charity and I went to Lexington KY Sunday morning to go to church with Eric and Leslie. Leslie cooked a very good Sunday dinner. And Kyle and Brittany and Chad and Heather came over for dinner. Eric wanted us to come up for my birthday. Then on Monday, Eric and I went to play 18 holes of golf. The kids gave me a new digital camera.

I want to pick up on our article about "DO CHILDREN GO TO HEAVEN?"

SO HOW DOES GOD DEAL WITH THEM?

DO THEY GO INSTANTLY TO HEAVEN?
^

And as I have said, I think the Word of God will affirm the salvation of little ones who die. Of course, parents always think their children go to heaven. Everyone thinks they will go to heaven.

Let first review Psalms 139

  • Psalms 139:1 For the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David. O Jehovah, thou hast searched me, and known me. 2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising; Thou understandest my thought afar off. 3 Thou searchest out my path and my lying down, And art acquainted with all my ways. 4 For there is not a word in my tongue, But, lo, O Jehovah, thou knowest it altogether. 5 Thou hast beset me behind and before, And laid thy hand upon me. 6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; It is high, I cannot attain unto it. 7 ¶ Whither shall I go from thy Spirit? Or whither shall I flee from thy presence? 8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, thou art there. 9 If I take the wings of the morning, And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, And thy right hand shall hold me.


God knows every thing about me from the time I was given life to the time I die.


God is actively involved in my life. From the very start the Lord has been actively involved in controlling my life. And there is no way He is ever going to lose sight of me. "Where can I go from your Spirit" (vs 7) In other words, I can’t go anywhere outside of His knowledge, I can’t go anywhere outside of His vision. So I can talk to God anytime and anywhere, and He knows I am where I am at the time.


Before I ever said a word in 1947 God knows every single detail about my life. How does God know me like that? Because He is my personal Creator (vs 13) God made me personally.


And He has determined my destiny (vs 16) The days that were ordained for me when as yet there wasn’t Charles Whisnant.


Babies are in the presence of God.

  • Cf Ecclesiastes 6 3-5 Solomon mourns. He mourns that a stillborn child is better off than a person who lives a 1000 years twice and doesn’t enjoy the right things, he said, "What’s the point of living two thousand years if you don’t ever enjoy true goodness. You’d be better off a stillborn child."
  • Cf Job 3:16-17 "I would be better off if I were stillborn, so I wouldn’t have to face a troubling life - that I would enter immediately into what? "Rest." Job then understood by the Holy Spirit that dying as an infant would bring one to rest and one would escape the pain of suffering. Which would say, Job didn’t believe that infants would die and go to hell.

WE SAY THAT A CHILD BEFORE BIRTH OR AFTER BIRTH THAT DIES GOES TO HEAVEN.


Some will say "What about sin? Others will talk about "age of accountability?"


Who qualifies then, in our discussion, as an infant or as a child, who dying is SAVED - who dying, instantly goes to heaven?

  • "Those who have not reached sufficient, mature understanding in order to comprehend convincingly the issues of law and grace, sin and salvation."
  • This would be the infant in the womb, the infant at birth, a small child, the mentally impaired adult at any age, anyone in the circumstance who cannot sufficiently understand and grasp so as to be fully convinced of the issues of law and grace and sin and salvation.
  • It’s not about age; it is a condition. So we can say, any persons in the state of mind where they cannot, in a mature way, know and grasp these issues would be safe in the arms of God.

Now you have those who ask "Are all children born as sinners? "

  • Some would say you are not a sinner until you commit sin by your own will. Notwithstanding, the Bible is definitely crystal clear that all children are sinners from conception – all children. This is the principle of iniquity which is embedded in the human race. Thus, all children are born morally corrupt. All children are born with an irresistible defect toward evil.
  • Everybody is born in sin. An infant born without sin would not die. If they were born innocent or spotless or morally neutral, then there would be no basis for their death!
  • The very fact that they die marks that the disease of sin is there in them.
  • Cf 1 Kings 8:46 "If they sin against you——for there is no one who does not sin.." ESV
  • Psa 51:5 "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity; in sin, my mother conceived me." From the point of conception sin was there, in the very nature.
  • Psa. 143:2 Enter not into judgment with your servant, for no one living is righteous before you."


That means from conception on, in the womb, at birth, childhood, adulthood, no one is righteous!
Psa 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies."

  • The Scripture clearly points out that sinfulness is not a condition that comes upon people when they are old enough to choose to do wrong. It’s the condition of the entire human race.
    Cf. Isa 48:8 "and that from before birth you were called a rebel." So it’s true that every child is conceived with this deadly virus called SIN. Thus, we cannot say that children die and go to heaven because they are sinless.

If it’s true then, that all are sinners, born into sin, then aren’t they all damned to hell and all the little children who die by the millions and even billions because they are sinful deserve death and hell and that is indeed where they go? If one has to believe on Jesus to be saved, and babies can’t, will they go to Hell?

Doesn’t total depravity teach all sinners go to Hell? Do Calvinists teach that infants can go to hell if they are not in the elect? Some do. I have heard and read that some preachers and theologians say if God does not elect a soul to heaven and that soul dies as a baby they will go to hell.

PRESSURE TO LOOK PERFECT DRIVES GIRLS TO DESTRUCTIVE BEHAVIOR
&
Dove(R) and Hollywood Team Up to Give Girls a Reality Check About What Goes on Behind-the-Scenes
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And a response from by sister Ellen
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Having a Christian Worldview verses a Worldview for young people are often the same. Often young people have there views that are seen in the world's market. Hollywood has as much to do with the opinions of the youth as the church does. More youth will look at B.S. (the girl in the news who was a model for 12 year old girls, who has two children, who the Judge said she needs to give over to her ex husband.) and want to model her. Sad.
^
GREENWICH, Conn., Oct. 2 /PRNewswire/ -- Girls today are fixating on their flaws, causing them to belittle themselves and even take destructive action. The onslaught of messages and images they constantly receive sets an unrealistic standard of beauty. The Dove Campaign for Real Beauty is partnering with the entertainment industry to address this issue by giving girls a reality check educating them about what images are real versus Hollywood magic. This global program is especially relevant as girls today are measuring themselves against impossible beauty ideals.

The new campaign was developed to help girls realize what they see in movies and magazines represents an unrealistic standard of beauty, not an everyday achievable look. As part of its commitment to build self-esteem in girls, the Dove Self-Esteem Fund is sponsoring self-esteem building workshops with inspirational celebrities and new online tools in an effort to educate moms, mentors and girls. The program also features "Onslaught," an attention- grabbing viral film that dramatizes the barrage of images and messages girls constantly face. As with all Dove Campaigns, the impetus for the program is grounded in startling new research about the factors that influence girls' body image.

Girls Fixate on Flaws, Self-Esteem Suffers

According to a recent survey conducted by the Dove Self-Esteem Fund and Seventeen magazine, more than four in 10 girls and young women only see their flaws when they look in the mirror. This is not surprising considering more than half of girls and young women say they get ideas for the way they want their bodies to look from celebrities and media, and 56 percent of girls and young women believe celebrities tend to have perfect bodies.

Girls are increasingly looking to celebrities as their role models because they are widely celebrated in media and society," commented Ann Kearney-Cooke, Ph.D., licensed psychologist and distinguished scholar for the Partnership for Women's Health at Columbia University. "Girls take away the message that these images represent a societal norm, and as a result punish themselves for not living up to impossible beauty ideals. The cycle continues to intensify as these perceived flawless images further inundate their world in overwhelming quantities."

Images Surround Girls

Girls are being besieged with all types of media in nearly every corner of their lives: * The average person sees between 400 and 600 advertisements per day(1) -
equivalent to more than one message for every waking minute.

For the most part young girls who come to church, will look at the average girls, who desire to look at BS (you know here she is in the news often these days) . They have a worldview rather than a Christian Worldview.

Charles E. Whisnant

Director of Chrsitian Education

Portsmouth Ohio

MY SISTER ELLEN RESPONDED TO ME BY E MAIL AND SENT THIS:

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Brother Charles, (Ellen is my sister, mother of two and grandmother of three, and she is ten years younger than I am)


I am always interested in news about media and how it affects our children. While the media and peers greatly affect them, we as parents still hold the key to what we present to them in the home.

Too, I must tell you that I HIGHLY DETEST Dove's campaign. It sickens me that they think they have to put naked women of all ages and sizes to send a message to young girls and women. Give me a break. When I was sitting in a theater waiting to watch an animated movie and all of a sudden Dove commercials popped up FULL SCREEN with these naked women, there was a hush that filled that large room...and then you heard a number of kids saying, "YUCK." I sat there as an older female quite embarrassed for the female gender. What is our problem? Do we not think we can speak on any other terms except thru nudity to get the right message to these young people?????

What about sending the message that our minds are what's important???? And we don't have to see their nudity to prove that women of all ages and sizes have value. Good Heavens!!! We need mercy and forgiveness on the mess that is presented to the youth of today. We can't even get the right good messages sent out without screwing them up with wrong images.

Yes, I know that the ads were not full frontal nudity...but it does prepare us for it. Josh McDowell has spoken for years about how the media desensitizes us by just this kind of toxic confusion...to set us up for more and more invasive attacks on God's Standards.

Have you seen these ads????? Please inform your audience to proceed with caution. I have not found a Christian yet that saw them and approved...but found them to be extremely distasteful and not productive to the cause Dove claims they are trying to present. I will continue to send a clarion call saying that they need toput these same women in clothing and have them present WHO they are internally not externally and that will make the difference with respect instead of being jeered at/made fun of.

Teens do NOT have to see skin to get the message...they are smarter than that. But as usually we dumb them down. Teens do not have to see skinny naked women or older wrinkled naked women, or over sized naked women to get the point that we as women are of value....for our minds and hearts and not our bodies. Yet, the very message Dove claims they are sending is destroyed with stripped down women.

And I will not be and have not been buying any Dove products. Where are we as Christians in all this???? Wake up!!!! We need to be having our own campaign in helping women instead of letting the world take over. This is where I am reminded of Jerry Falwell...he didn't sit on his back side...he did something instead of letting the world take over. He's gone so who will be the one to speak out now???? At least individually we can begin. So that is what I am doing even as I email this to you.

Dove is supposed to be a cleaning product....but their message is not. I know I stand alone perhaps in the circle of the world...but that is life. I will NEVER believe we have to resort to nudity to prove anything. The only nakedness we should have is before our Lord and Savior.

And the sharing of our souls and bodies with our spouses. That's the beauty of it all. It is special and reserved. We are not animals. But then sometimes you wonder.


your sister,

WILL MY GRANDDAUGHER GO TO HEAVEN AND WHY?
Part Five
REDEEMING GRACE COMES FROM GOD
^


It is my belief that God redeems those little ones that have been murdered in infancy, and those who have died naturally in the womb before birth. I believe that His grace reaches out and takes those little ones to be with Himself, because the Bible is clear.


The Bible teaches that people go to Hell because they do not believe, and Hell is for those who reject God and who reject Christ. This is something an unborn infant could never do. So God, not having a just basis, either internally, or externally, by virtue of the attitude or the action of an unborn child, would have no basis on which to sentence them to hell (except for the depravity they inherited in Adam, which is never a cause for damnation apart from its evidence in behavior or attitude). God must then embrace them into His own kingdom.


As I have said, millions, most likely billions, of little souls have died in our human history. And as we have said, any death from the point of conception on is the death of a person; and persons have eternal souls.


The book "Empty Arms" states that 25% of all human conceptions do not complete the twentieth week of pregnancy.

  • One out of four conceived dies
  • 75% of fatal deaths occur in the first twelve weeks.
  • Neonatal death (that means, death in the womb) Paranatal death (means at the time of birth) occurred in massive numbers.

Of course the highest infant mortality occur in the poorest and most primitive nations. All these are eternal souls.


WHERE ARE THEY?


A Parent has the right to know. What do you tell a parent who has lost a child during pregnancy or as a child.

  • They are either in Hell or in Heaven, because they are eternal souls.

REACTION TO THE DEATH OF A CHILD


There was an article called "Mental Reactions to Parantal Death" and it chronicles the parental reaction to the loss of a baby around the time of birth.

  • 60% of the parents surveyed were angry
  • 50 % of the men felt guilt-90% of the women felt guilt abut the death of their child
  • 75 % were irritable
  • 65-70% of the parents lost their appetite
  • 80 to 90% lost their sleep
  • 95 to 100 % of them felt a profound and deep sadness


I can tell you in Charity and my case and in that of our family, that there are some amazing impacts of this on the life of parents.


So whether you are looking on the broad scale, of millions of these little souls dying, or you look at the individual level and you see the anguish or sorrow and sadness that it brings into the life of a family, either perspective cries out for an answer.


DOES THE BIBLE HAVE AN ANSWER TO THE QUESTION "WHERE ARE THESE LITTLE ONES?" SIMPLE ANSWER: YES
^


Birth is an act of God. Every birth is from God, by His will and for His purpose.
Cf Psalms 22:9 "Yet thou art He who did bring me forth from the womb; you did make me trust when upon my mother’s breast; upon thee I was cast from birth. You have been my God from my mother’s womb!"


As we have stated before here, David acknowledged that life came from God and when that life survived the womb and the birth and actually began to live, it was a life that God had allowed to live. No death occurs apart from the purpose of God. No life occurs apart from the purpose of God.
Originally, in the beginning, with God in creation there was no death. Adam and Eve were given the power to procreate, to produce life in a deathless world. They were to be fruitful and multiple and fill the earth, and they would literally produce life in a deathless world so that no life conceived would ever die.


Let’s see, 10,000 years of procreation and no deaths. How many would that be?
As we know when Adam and Eve did sin, death came on all people. Therefore, death to infancy and in childhood.


There is the educated guess that says that as many as half of the people ever conceived die before they reach any level of maturity.


SO HOW DOES GOD DEAL WITH THEM?
DO THEY GO INSTANTLY TO HEAVEN?
^


next time
Charles E. Whisnant, Charity Whisnant proofread

Study: Christianity No Longer Looks Like Jesus
Young Americans today are more skeptical and resistant to Christianity than were people of the same age just a decade ago, says a new study.

Young Americans today are more skeptical and resistant to Christianity than were people of the same age just a decade ago, says a new study.Negative perceptions toward the Christian faith have outweighed the positive as a growing percentage of younger Americans associate with a faith outside Christianity.
Only 16 percent of non-Christians aged 16 to 29 years old said they have a "good impression" of Christianity, according to a report released Monday by The Barna Group.
A decade ago, the vast majority of Americans outside the Christian faith, including young people, felt favorably toward Christianity’s role in society.
Young people have an even lesser positive impression of evangelicals. Only 3 percent of 16- to 29-year-olds who are not of the Christian faith express favorable views of evangelicals. In the previous generation, 25 percent of young people had positive associations toward evanglicals
Having worked with youth for years, having four children myself, I would suggest what youth see in church, is not necessary what they see in the work place, or in society in general.
There is a reason why youth do not continue in church following their teen years!!
DID MY GRANDCHILD GO TO HEAVEN BEFORE BIRTH?

part four


From the creation of that child God puts himself into that little body. That unborn child is the special work of God created in His image. (vs. 13)


  • "FOR THOU DID FORM MY INWARD PARTS; THOU DID WEAVE ME IN MY MOTHER’S WOMB. I WILL GIVE THANKS TO THEE, FOR I AM FEARFULLY AND WONDERFULLY MADE; WONDERFUL ARE THY WORKS, AND MY SOUL KNOWS IT VERY WELL, MY FRAME WAS NOT HIDDEN FROM THEE, AND WHEN I WAS MADE IN SECRET, AND SKILLFULLY WROUGHT IN THE DEPTHS OF THE EARTH, THY EYES HAVE SEEN MY UNFORMED SUBSTANCE; AND IN THY BOOK THEY WERE ALL WRITTEN, THE DAYS THAT WERE ORDAINED FOR ME, WHEN AS YET THERE WAS NOT ONE OF THEM." READ IT AGAIN.


God was forming all my inward parts. God was threading together all that is part of humanity. That is my DNA. Putting together all the components and elements in the body, woven together with the soul and spirit.



The terms "my frame was not hidden from God," "my substance" I was not hidden when I was made "in secret" (the secret place in the womb." I was by God "skillfully made." I was put together "when God beautified me, when He made the very fabric; He pulled together every tiny little piece and God wove it all to make me."



Cf Isaiah 45:16-19 gives us the same picture. "Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance" i.e. my unshaped embryonic substance, literally, again in the Hebrew, "something rolled together,’ when I was just a little ball of life, when I was just a little ball of 23 chromosomes x’s and y’s. And in that state I was already written in a book of life. As short as one day or two months or four months, that life was written in a book.



THE CHILD BORN IN SIN:


Note Psalms 51:5 "Behold, I was brought forth in INIQUITY, and in sin my mother conceived me." This means that from my conception there was something else going on in me too and it is sin.


We believe that God only creates the eternality; the eternal soul and spirit, Only a person, by the way, can be a sinner. We believe that we pass on sin.

So this little pint-sized life, this little rolled up ball of genetics, this little fetus


(In humans, the unborn young from the end of the eighth week after conception to the moment of birth, as distinguished from the earlier embryo. a human from eight weeks after fertilization to its birth. In a fetus, all major body organs are present.)is already appropriated as a sinner in the womb from conception; and only a person is a sinner. So we are created in the image of God, which is stained by the sin of Adam, passed on from generation to generation. So we can say then, that the eternal soul is the creation of God, but its sinful predisposition is the heritage of man. No human being, therefore, is ever conceived outside God’s will or ever conceived apart from God’s image. LIFE is a gift from God created in His own image.


THE EXCEPTIONAL CARE


Now this defenseless creation which God Himself has conceived in the womb of a woman becomes the exceptional object of His loving care. Cf. Psalms 82:3


WHERE ARE THEY?