WHAT IS THE PRINCIPLE THAT WE SHOULD USE TO DETERMINE GOD’S WILL?
DO WE REALLY NEED DOCTRINAL UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLE

part six

There is no danger of inconsequential doctrine; the real threat is an undoctrinal attempt at application. Application not based on solid interpretation has led Christians into all kinds of confusion.

I will sum up this series today.

It’s true that God is internal. This is to say, God’s presence and activity are within nature, human nature, and history, which is our original topic (remaining within; indwelling; inherent, internal.). It’s true that God’s immanency means that there are points at which the gospel can and does approach the unbeliever. God in His time can and does approach an unbeliever and causes him to believe the gospel story. There will be an instant in time in which man will be sensitive to the truth of the gospel story. But at the same time, evangelism aims to find those moments and direct the central idea to them. If this is correct, does God do this also with believers in making His purpose come about?

While we will use every available technique of modern learning to accomplish God’s purpose,it is God at work even when not doing it directly. For example, it is God’s work when by means of the use of medical knowledge, and the skill of a doctor, a sick person is brought back to health. The knowledge in any field of work, is part of God’s general revelation. So we prayed that our daughter would get well after forty days in the hospital. God answered that prayer through the hands of Dr. Hagihara, her surgeon. We will never cease to be dependent upon His working.. That is, we could never disregard prayer for His guidance or for His special intervention.

I understand that God decides that certain things will take place in our lives. The mapping out of God does not force men to act in definite ways, but renders it certain that they will freely act in those ways. Eph 2:10

Do people do what they do because God has decided that this is exactly how they are going to act, or does God first foresee what they will do and then on that basis make His decision as to what is going to happen Calvinists believe that God’s decision has rendered it certain that every individual will act in particular way. And of course Arminians say that God allows and expects man to exercise the will he has been given

As I try to understand this process of God knowing all things, He not only knows everything, but He causes all things to be as they are to be. The human mind just cannot fully understand that. Every action of mankind from here to eternity is already known by God. We are led to believe that every action of mankind and every action of nature is an action that God not only knows but also controls.

In other words. God’s purpose will be done, we know that. There are two different senses of God’s will as we are learning. Different theologians use different words to describe God’s Will;. but either way, His will and His purposes are absolute..

There is God’s specific intention in a given situation, what He decides shall actually occur. An example would be His gift of salvation. There are also times, and I would say many times, when God wills to permit things to happen that God does not desire to happen. God, I believe, will allow on occasions, for us to choose freely a sinful course of action. I think as I have said in this paper, that God will allow a church or/and leadership to make a wrong decision. It’s not God’s intention that a Preacher goes into sin, that is not His desire, yet He allows it to happen. He allows mankind, by their own volition to obey or disobey His wishes.. Why He does this we do not know. By choosing not to intervene to prevent the act, He is actually willing that it take place.

Then if God has already rendered certain what is to occur, is there any point in our seeking to accomplish His will? It’s often a point of view about evangelism. So why should we evangelize if it’s going to be a foregone conclusion? Good question, as I often hear.. His plan whereby He saves a person may well include that our witness is the means by which an elect person will come to saving faith. And secondly, we do not know in detail what God’s plan is. Thus we should carry on based on what God has proclaimed is His Will, or desire.
Our activity and the divine activity are not mutually exclusive. We have no basis for looseness, indifference, or resignation in the face of the fact that God is at work accomplishing His goals. God’s providence includes human actions.

We are not just to sit back and wait to see God’s purposes fulfilled. God wants each church to have elders, deacons, and leaders, and see sinners come to Christ as Lord and Savior. We are not just to sit and wait for it to happen, but to engage in the biblical principles of bringing these to pass.

Just because we are Calvinists in position, and believe in God’s sovereignty over all things, and there is the absolute that God will and does execute something

IT IN NO WAY EXCUSES US FROM GIVING OURSELVES DILIGENTLY TO BRINGING ABOUT ITS ACCOMPLISHMENT.

God brings about His purposes and plan, and He does so by commissioning the means to those ends, which includes human actions.

It is hard to summarize in a few words what God accomplishes, or does. This is blogging.

Maybe we could use the word "allow" rather than permit. Because my understanding is, God’s Will will be accomplished. But there are some things God desires of mankind that do not happen. God could at any time step in and prevent any action of mankind, yet he does allow those actions to happen. He can decide to allow a person to choose a sinful course of action against a believer, or a believer doing that which is not God’s desire for him to do. (sin). While I believe God is always in control of every situation, He does not tell a person to sin. I don’t think His sovereignty is defaulted if he allows sin to happen, or bad judgments to be made. His eternal plan cannot be affected by mankind. Acts 14:16 Romans 1 Matthew 19:8 2 Chronicles 32:31 and Psalms 81:12-13

• Acts 14:16 Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.
• Matthew 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
• 2 Chronicles 32:31 Howbeit in the business of the ambassadors of the princes of Babylon, who sent unto him to enquire of the wonder that was done in the land, God left him, to try him, that he might know all that was in his heart.
• Psalms 81:12 So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels.13 Oh that my people had hearkened unto me, [and] Israel had walked in my ways!
• 
  My point is? God’s desires for mankind in general, are at times not obeyed. But He still supervises, oversees, controls, manages all things unto His glory.
  Drafted by Charles E. Whisnant October 13th and 14th Proof Read By Charity Whisnant. Posted 20th
  
  

Quoting Bruce Shelley...

"Theology comes from two Greek words: theos, meaning God, and logos, meaning word or rational thought. So theology is rational thought about God. It is not identical with religion. Religion is our belief in God and our effort to live by that belief. Theology is the attempt to give a rational explaination of our belief: it is thinking about religion."

Now I will watch the rest of the St. Louis and New York baseball game........

• Unquestionable in this pursuit of biblical understanding is the commitment to obey God’s will. Study is not simply for the purpose of appreciating doctrine in the abstract. The energetic searching for biblical truth, the daily meditation on the Word, and the striving for sound interpretation are useful only if compelled by a yearning to please the Lord, and submit to His wishes.

WHAT IS THE PRINCIPLE THAT WE SHOULD USE TO DETERMINE GOD’S WILL?
DOES GOD FOREORDAIN EVERYTHING?

Application not based on solid interpretation has led Christians into all kinds of Confusion.

Part 5b Note 5 from yestersday...

Peter Y. Woo disagrees with Sproul
RC Sproul is wrong. "God foreordain everything" does not include every movement of every electron in the minds of Satan and the demons. He does foreordain a certain degree of us making decision and choices, yet He can predict history. This apparent paradox is illustrated by physics, where light particles are intractable individually, yet overall obeys some statistical laws of diffraction, etc. RC Sproul, like Calvin, does not see the wisdom of God in allowing for human individual free choice. That makes the wooing of our hearts to trust Jesus and be saved, all the more praise worthy. We noncalvinists have greater appreciation of God's wisdom and power than that of a watch maker. God decrees things, but not necessarily microscopically. That is wisdom.

Peter; If you think about what you said, it is not logical.
If God knows something in the future, but yet does not know the movements of say, the electrical mind particles with any certainty, then He can not be said to be sure of the future for if there is to be true certainty, then all the intrincities that make that certainty certain must also be known for certain. And for that to happen One must be able to be sovereign over those intrincities by making them happen whether directly by fiat or indirectly by law. "Non calvinists" only see the wisdom of the supposed freedom of man choosing, but not the sovereignty of God in all things. For Man to be free in the sense you are saying leaves God not in total control but in actuality leaves Man or natural law in control.

This is why God does not woo our hearts, but draws our hearts as one would draw water. To woo our hearts makes it possible that no Man would allow himself to be wooed, thus making the blessed sacrifice of Christ accomplish nothing but to damn all men , which would be a waste since we were all damned to begin with.

If I claim to be certain beyond a shadow of a doubt, which of course is impossible, then I must know for certain, with no chance of change, that all the elements that would come to pass must come to pass.

Now does He do this as the game is played or was it foreordained? It has to be foreordained for God to be God. Yes, our choices play into this ordination in some way, and there may be free choices within the foreordination, but yet in the final analysis , it must be controlled by God. Posted by: Fred on Tuesday over at oldtruth.co

• I understand God is sovereign. In that sovereignty God allows or permits what ever happens. Does that mean that what He permits He approves?
  Does God allow us to make decisions that are not His Will, but allows us to do those things He does not approve of?
  In making a decision for a church elder, do we seek to discover God's will or do we wait and see how God is going to work it out? And how do you think God is going to work this out?
  Posted by: Charles E. Whisnant on Friday, October 13, 2006

Charles:
I don't think the bible says anywhere that God forfeits his sovereignty by yielding it to men. I know that you didn't use those words, but that's in effect what the case would be. And if it were the case, there is no way that God could have orchestrated the Cross to happen. One "decision" of man, one maverick Molecule as RC Sproul said above, could ruin God's plan. Instead we find passages such as Ephesians 1:11 in which God is said to work ALL THINGS, etc. We also have examples like this one from Acts 4:27-28, which help us to understand that He is doing more than just "permitting" and "allowing": "...for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place."Posted by: Jim from OldTruth.com on Friday, October 13, 2006

DO WE REALLY NEED DOCTRINAL UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLE

• There is no danger of inconsequential doctrine; the real threat is an undoctrinal attempt at application. Application not based on solid interpretation has led Christians into all kinds of confusion.

We see that there is much to be said about this point of view. But it’s a good topic for us to learn. Doctrine for a Christian is like gasoline for a car. God in a sense is a mystery. Yet God has revealed Himself to us through the Word, and He has written down Doctrine to help us with living life. For every experience that we encounter in this daily life, there is a prescription from the Word of God that will address the situation

• So our question within this series has been: HAS GOD DIRECTED THE DIRECTION THAT WE HAVE TRAVELED?. HAVE WE BEEN IN THE WILL OF GOD? IS THERE BIBLICAL EVIDENCE TO THE FACT THAT GOD HAS BEEN IN CONTROL OF ALL THE EVENTS.

We all say, "God you are in control, we pray that you would direct, guide, give wisdom, bring to yourself your own unto salvation...yes, but do we really believe God is in that much control?

\Drafted by Charles E. Whisnant October 13th Checked by Charity October 16th Posted 19th

WHAT IS THE PRINCIPLE THAT WE SHOULD USE TO DETERMINE GOD’S WILL?
The question is:
IS EVERY DECISION THAT LEADERSHIP MAKES GOD’S WILL AND PURPOSE?

WEDNESDAY

We continue this series today, and for the rest of the week.

In view of God’s sovereignty, can any decision be made that is not God’s will? Can any action that we make be outside of God’s purposes and plan for our life? Do we as pastors/teachers need to teach on subjects telling our members to walk according to the will of God for their lives? If their walk is going to be in the will of God anyway?

Is any decision made by mankind, outside the control of a sovereign God?

Is there not a contradiction at certain points between what God commands and says He desires and what He actually wills? Sin for an example is totally prohibited, yet apparently God wills for it to occur! (If your position is that God has granted everything that occurs.)

I was over at oldtruth.blogspot.com the other day and the discussion was about this subject
Quoting RC Sproul . . .

• I began [a seminary class by reading this from] the Westminster Confession: God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass. I stopped reading at that point. I asked, "Is there anyone in this room who does not believe the words that I just read?" A multitude of hands went up. I then asked, "Are there any convinced atheists in the room?" No hands were raised. I then said something outrageous: "Everyone who raised his hand to the first question should also have raised his hand to the second question." http://www.oldtruth.com/blog.cfm/id.2.pid.484

We read this statement and say " unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass." So does this mean that His will is always done? That God in some sense foreordains whatever comes to pass is a necessary result of His sovereignty.

It only declares that God is absolutely sovereign over His creation. God can foreordain things in different ways. But everything that happens must at least happen by His permission. If He permits something, then He must decide to allow it. If He decides to allow something, then in a sense He is foreordaining it. Who, among Christians, would argue that God could not stop something in this world from happening? If God so desires, He has the power to stop the whole world.

• Is there is one single molecule in this universe running around loose, totally free of God's sovereignty, then we have no guarantee that a single promise of God will ever be fulfilled. Perhaps that one maverick molecule will lay waste all the grand and glorious plans that God has made and promised to us. If a grain of sand in the kidney of Oliver Cromwell changed the course of English history, so our maverick molecule could change the course of all redemption history. Maybe that one molecule will be the thing that prevents Christ from returning. ...
• Without sovereignty God cannot be God. If we reject divine sovereignty then we must embrace atheism. This is the problem we all face. We must hold tightly to God's sovereignty. Yet we must do it in such a way so as not to violate human freedom. ]

• Of God's Eternal Decree
  "God, from all eternity, did by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established"
  .reformed. org/documents/wcf

"RC Sproul, like Calvin, does not see the wisdom of God in allowing for human individual free choice." says: Peter Y. Woo, Biola Univ. I ask .."so is this true?" Charles E. Whisnant

"I believe that whether we are speaking of God's decretive (active) will or His permissive (passive) will, both work together to bring about what He has ordained. In that sense we are safe in saying nothing occurs He hasn't ordained or that He hasn't willed to take place, or not take place, such as the case may be." covenantcorner.blogspot.com David Mccrory

This is rather deep to digest so I will post the last half of this post on Thursday. We continue to study this issue, How do we know how God is in control? By what means is God in control? Tune in Thursday.

Next week we will return to our pastoral ministry at First Baptist Church, Altoona.

Drafted by Charles E. Whisnant October 13th Checked by Charity 17th Posted 18th

WHAT IS THE PRINCIPLE THAT WE SHOULD USE TO DETERMINE GOD’S WILL? DECISIONS IN MINISTRY

Part Five
TUESDAY

Let me bring to an end of this post with John MacArthur’s answer for a church getting a Pastor.
Question:

If you had to speak to a member of a pulpit committee out in the future, for your sons, your grandsons, what kind of time commitment would you encourage them to set aside for a pastor-teacher to be able to devote his time to preaching, teaching, studying the Word of God?

John MacArthur's Answer
You know what I would say to that? That’s a great question, and you know what I would say to that committee? I would say, "You find a nice apartment for this guy and his wife and his family, and you pledge six months to him, and you let him come, and six months later, you decide." That’s what I would say. That’s a contractual thing. You’re not going to just rise and fall on a few "sugar-stick" sermons and give this guy hope, and then chew him up and spit him out in little pieces as soon as he says something that the oldest and longest tenured Sunday School teacher doesn’t agree with. It only takes one of those kind of guys to destroy a young man’s ministry. It’s all about turf, and it’s all about the pastor preaching something that you’ve been teaching the opposite in your class and you just got exposed, and you’re not happy. Or, somebody moved your power base or made it a little smaller or whatever—it’s amazing.

I would say, I think the worst way to candidate people for a church is to have them fly into town, ask them an afternoon’s questions, have him preach three sermons, and then have the people vote. It’s ridiculous. What do the people know? They don’t know. Why would they even be involved? I think the leaders of the church need to get together and they need to say, "We think this man could be a candidate, and we’re going to have him come, we’’re going to find a place for him to live that’s furnished, and we’re going to put him there for six months, and we’re going to see if this is a relationship made in heaven or not." When the six months is over, you sit down in an amiable way. The people know they’re not stuck, he knows he’s not stuck; it’s a period of evaluation, etc. He’s fully supported, he’s cared for—and there would even be a bridge from then out, if necessary, until he could find another place.

This idea of churches picking pastors—the most crucial decision they have—and they do it when they don’t have a pastor, which means they’re leaderless! They appoint this ad hoc committee of people who all have different criteria, they bring in this poor guy with all kinds of high hopes, and then just chop his legs out from under him, and make him become some kind of warrior who has to defend his family and his children and his own integrity in a battle that rages. I just think we need more time than that to find out whether this is going to really work. During that six months would be the time, behind the scenes, when that potential pastor would hammer out doctrinal convictions and say, "This is where I’m going to go if I’m going to be here. I’m going to show you why I’m going to go there. It’s not about preaching a sermon on this or that you might like—everybody can do that—it’s about here’s what I believe, here’s the direction I think this church needs to go, here’s what we need to do, here’s what needs to be put in place." You don’t say that to everybody; you don’t say that to the whole congregation; you say that to those who are in responsible leadership, and you find out if their hearts are knit with you, and that’s the way you’re going to go."

Drafted by Charles E. Whisnant, Friday October 13, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006

I am sure that most people who are in church leadership (those churches that I have been a part of) believe they are diligently seeking the Lord’s will, and they are doing to the best of their ability to accomplish God’s purpose and will for the local church. Their decisions are made with the best interest of the body of Christ.

WHAT IS THE PRINCIPLE THAT WE SHOULD USE TO DETERMINE GOD’S WILL? DECISIONS IN MINISTRY
Part Four
MONDAY
DECISIONS IN MINISTRY

My experiences in ministry have been interesting for sure. I have had to make decisions where to serve in ministry.

In those churches that I have served as Youth Pastor, Minister of Education, or Pastor, can I say they were the Lord’s purposes and plan for my life and for the church itself? Did I and the leadership of the churches seek to discover and know the Lord’s will? What were the factors that the leadership of the church used to determine who they believed was the Lord’s will? Was that even a thought?

I have often said to leadership and members of churches: "Have you really prayed and sought God’s will in this matter of me coming to serve in your church?"

I mean in several churches within three months the leadership and members were saying, "I think we made a mistake." I have said at times "I think I made a mistake in coming to the church!"

The leadership would say, "Yes we have prayed and have asked the Lord for guidance." Well... as I often say, "Then you should accept who the Lord brought to your church to serve you."

In other cases the church and leadership would say, "We have selected someone else to be our pastor, or Associate Pastor." Then they will say, "We believe the Lord has led us to this person." Then what happens within a year or more that Pastor is gone. So if the Lord’s will was for that man to come, why in a short time does he say, "I believe it’s the Lord’s will that I leave."

Can the Lord’s will be confused? Can the Lord’s will be disregarded? I personally believe this is often true. First, all of us are impaired spiritually.

We say when some ministry position doesn’t work out. "It was the the Lord’s will, He is in control." And we move on to the next adventure in our lives. We and the church believe it is all because the Lord purposed it to happen. But is this really true? Can we say in every circumstance God’s will was accomplished.? Can God’s purpose be accomplished but at the same time His "preceptive* will was not? God’s purposes will be indeed accomplished. Even when we continue to disobey His commands. or fail to do His expressed rule or principle that prescribes a particular course of action or conduct.

On several occasions, I believe the Lord has moved us into a position to be used in a church, before the church knew they were going to need a Pastor. How often have I preached "The Lord will send to our church those whom He chooses to help us accomplish His purposes for this church." A Sunday School teacher, a choir member, a piano player, a gifted person in some area. And we accept that. But when a minister comes to a church and joins, and then the need comes up, the church leadership will often look somewhere else. Could they have overlooked God’s choice and will?

John MacArthur has said (not a direct quote) "We need to have the ability to see what God is doing around us, and then join Him in that work." That is we need to discover His will for us and the church and then do it. But we want our will to be God’s will.

I think I should join the American Psychiatric Association Division of Religious Ministers.*
"A Preacher Jumps off the Golden Gate Bridge after Two Classes and taking the Prescribed Drug."*

After a preacher was hired to be the youth pastor of FBC by a margin of 13 votes, the pastor and his family moved six hundred miles to this church. After six months several of the longest tenured Sunday School teachers didn’t agree with him. He was teaching and acting contrary to what they agreed with.

They as a group went into the young people’s room and dismantled all the work which had gone into making the class room youth friendly .

The young youth pastor was so distraught that he became ill.
He checked into a counseling center and they prescribed some drugs to help him overcome this illness.
That very week due to an after affect of the drugs he found himself on the Golden Gate Bridge.
End of his life, end of story."

Does God require us to know His preceptive will? He has written His express rules and principles that prescribe a characteristic direction of action or conduct to fulfill His will.
It’s not a wait and see action. "Let’s see how the Lord is going to work this process out." Because if the Lord works out something, it’s going to be right

• . Let me give an example of this: When I resigned as Pastor of FBC, in our search for a new pastor, we learned thru another pastor friend DeWayne Prossor of a young man who would be good. And within a month we had a visit with this young man, and he became pastor of FBC, for eight years. Good choice. I believe sometimes the Lord can do such things.

Pulpit Committees have a place in this process I guess, but generally they are mixed up, have their own biased points of view of what the church needs, and more often then not, fail to follow God’s prescribed principles and directions. And church members as a whole have less ability in this process.
*

WHAT IS THE PRINCIPLE THAT WE SHOULD USE TO DETERMINE GOD’S WILL? FOOTNOTE: A PERSONAL APPLICATION

Part Three

So can we conclude that more often than not, we miss the directive will of God. We miss the principle God has clearly stated in Scripture which would lead us to know His will. And He will allow us to make those decisions which are sometimes wrong. Sometimes I would say they are not the best choices to make, maybe not necessarily a wrong decision.

I remember in FBC in Altoona, Kansas, a missionary husband and wife, Russ and Rose Hanson, came through Altoona, drove to our home, and came to the front door on a Saturday afternoon. Russ came up to the door, and said, "Are you Pastor Whisnant?" I said, "Yes." "I am Russ Hanson, a missionary. I wonder if you would like me to present my work to your church on Sunday?"

And in a moment of time I without hesitation said, "Yes." They had their own mobile home, and they parked behind the church and spoke on Sunday Morning. They become our dear friends for all the time we were in Altoona.

My point. Sometimes to know the will of God, you need to have a mind that is set on obeying the Spirit of God, and keenly aware of what God is doing around you.

In this instance, and I might add, not in all cases like this, I responded with my spirit. Too often we struggle with the "if we should’s" rather than the leading of the Spirit.

If you believe God is working in your local church, and He is working out His purposes, and it’s in His timing, then if someone like a Russ Hanson, comes to your local church on a Saturday Night and asks to speak to your church on missions.... Then my question would be, do you really believe God is working out His purposes in His time? You say, "What happens next will be according to God’s timing and purposes..."

My question then is, "Do you have the mind that will allow you to see a Russ Hanson as being God’s timing and purposes for His local church?" Because Russ and Rose over the next few years proved to be in God’s timing and purpose for our church.

I didn’t have to wait three years to have the discernment of God’s will in this matter. A quick mind set that is focused on the will of God, will be able to made decisions like that.

John MacArthur speaks on the subject of doing God’s will. He says, "If you are living in His righteousness, then you can do what you want." That is, if you are doing all that the Lord is asking you to do, your desires and will and wants will be to do the will of God. You will have developed a mind that is like Christ. I have heard John say, "Where my mind ends and Christ’s mind starts are close." That is, he has so put his mind in the mind of Christ that he thinks Christ.

Sometimes you instinctively know.

If the folks in Corinth had checked out Paul, and checked on his background, he would have never been invited to speak at the church. We don’t trust the Lord as much as we trust in a goggle search.

When your mind gets off the Lord and on men, you will get confused about the will of God. "Well let me check you out first, let me see if you are going to be a fit for our church, let’s pray about this matter for the next few months. In my opinion you may have thus missed the right timing of God’s purpose He had for your church.

I was not so sure then, I didn’t know the why’s. But in an instant I made a decision, a trust of my spirit that the Lord was in this matter.

I have always said, "Why can’t the Spirit of the Lord just tell us, if this is the right man." Why do we need to spend a year or a year and a half in searching for God’s man. Why a background check, a FBI search. Are we asking the secular world to confirm God’s choice. If we are, then I believe God is not in it.

You do all the goggle search you want on a person, but that is not the way to find God’s will for His purpose for the church. I believe it’s possible that God in His time can bring to the local church the person He desires to be one of the pastors of the church, before the church even knows they will soon need a pastor. The Lord has already set in place the man He wants in that church. But because the church has not a clue of the working of God in their midst, they will go out and search for a year for someone, whom they believe is God’s will, and hire him, and then within the first year, realize that they might have made a bad decision.

Growing in the understanding of God's Word is a process that continues in our life time.

Sometimes even before I finish a post, my understanding is changing about the wonderful work and work of Christ.

Continues part four on Monday What John MacArthur says about hiring a preacher for your church.

Drafted by Charles E. Whisnant October 12th 2006 Proof-read Charity 10 12-20 Posted 10-14