WHERE DO WE LEARN ABOUT GOD, OR THEOLOGY?

ARE YOU SMARTER THAN A FIFTH GRADER IN BIBLE?

Many churches are not equipped to talk about God. Many churches really do not have a real interested about knowing who God really is. Many preachers just want to teach the simple gospel's abc. Many church members are not smarter than a fifth grader in Bible.

A thought provoking comment by Machen on theological ignorance in the church:

1. 
   
   Machen thought that liberalism had spread to such a great extent in the church because of the theological ignorance of the whole church. In his classic book Christianity and Liberalism, he wrote "An outstanding fact of recent church history is the appalling growth of ignorance in the church...The growth of [such] ignorance is the logical and inevitable result of the false notion that Christianity is a life and not a doctrine; if Christianity is not a doctrine then of course teaching is not necessary."
   

• 
  
  Hart adds:
  The church needs not only people with M.Div.'s and M.A.R.'s but, more importantly, people who know and love the catechisms of the various confessional traditions. In fact, one of the reasons why seminary graduates may have such a hard time finding an outlet in the church for what they have learned is that theology has become the exclusive domain of the seminary, with the congregation and home existing as bystanders. Seminaries don't need more programs. They need more families and churches to do what they are called to do.

Many church members just want to hear a simple gospel or a talk and keeping it short as possible. There is little room for dialoge that would require a lot of thinking and thought.

In many church members just think you are trying to show off, if you want to talk about church doctrines.

1. From D. G. Hart, "Overcoming the Schizophrenic Character of Theological Education in the Evangelical Tradition" in Michael S. Horton [ed.], A Confessing Theology for Postmodern Times, p. 126
   

^ Thank it over...... Go to church Sunday and have a serious talk about God.

Get Me Outta Here Now!

Psalms 37 and Colossians 3

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Charity and I have had some wonderful years of ministry in our marriage. We have found ourselves in many kinds of situations in churches that we have served. We have seen the joy of seeing the Lord bring to Himself those who were lost unto salvation. We have seen the Lord call unto Himself young men and women into His service. We have seen the Lord bring to Himself men who were without Christ to Himself, and place them in His care, some would preach the Word, others would serve in the church in bring kids to church for thirty years. We have seen the Lord bring women out of a life of struggle unto Himself and gave them a new life and a new heart, and gave them the ministry of encouragement, and kindness and services to children and family and friends. We have seen children and youth in our children's ministries grow up and become wonderful Christians adults and parents and workers in their local church.

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The Lord has moved us from Texas, to Ohio, to Kansas to Indiana, to Kentucky and then back to Ohio over these thirty-eight years. We have been in some good places to service and then others we said, "Lord get us outta of here!" And in some places they were saying, "Get Charles outta of here!" (They never said "Please Lord get Charity out of here!) But as you know, wives are very sensitive about their husbands.

In those early years when we were young, "back then" and as we tell the stories from those days we shake our heads at how we were wonderfully clueless.As we went from church to church we didn't realize how life's stuff has a way of piling up on you. You just don't see it when you're young in love with life and serving the Lord. By the time you flip a few years on the calendar, you can look back on choices you wish you had made differently and situations you hoped would have turned out better. All of a sudden a few years, then a few decades have gone by, and stuff has really started to pile up.

In every move from one city to another, we had to get rid of a lot of stuff and left behind some nice stuff, that we have regretted. We have left behind friends, family, and dishes, and old rubber ducks.

Then we move again and get more stuff and have to start storing them in your father-in-laws barn or in a church office, or in a brother in laws building. Or we store them in some drawer in the house. Then we have to put the stuff in the basement.

Then a few more years pass and you are now in need of a serious garage sale. Now there are two kinds of stuff you need to have a garage sale, here I am not talking about dumping old lamps, baby clothes, baseball cards, and Wheatie boxes and old cars, (which would not be a bad idea) but another dumping needs to happen. Let me explained:

When you are in the Lord's army, and you are marching toward Mt. Zion, you take a lot of hits. Life is moving so fast, that you don't have time to deal with all the hurts, disappointments, failures, unresolved conflicts. You just put them in a drawer as it were. And every time you move to another place, you pack up all that crud and put it in box and store them somewhere in the attic or basement. and you leave them there for sixteen years.

Then you move again and move the old crud from the attic. Life moves so fast, its easy to just stick unresolved conflict and hurts in a drawer. Over the last few years more hurts and conflict fill up the spots on a shelf somewhere

Now you need to get rid of all the harbored hurts of times when people disappointed you, all the rejections you've stuffed away, and all the situations that unfolded the way you hoped they never would. And now you find your self in need to move again.And unless we deal with these burdens God's way, no matter where you go to get away from it, you're drag your carryon baggage with you.

Yesterday Charity was listening to James McDonald on the car radio as she was going to see her mother, James was reading from Psalms 34, and Charity heard him read from verses18

"The Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit."

This morning she was telling me what she had heard. And Charity felt that was how I was this morning brokenhearted and crushed in spirit. And once again we find our selves with hurt feelings, rejections, and wished we had not made decisions, and things have just not turned out the way we would wished they had. And our spirit is crushed and we are brokenhearted. And the drawers are full.

Yesterday morning before Charity got out of bed, I was downstairs cleaning out the drawers, and pilled up all the old bills, receipts and church papers, and stuff like old cell phones, and keys that don't work for years and put them in the trash. Hummm!

God has not make us with the capacity to carry forward all that negative weight from our past. He doesn't expect you to. He gives us His ability to forgive in order to free us from the hurt of relational failure. I know that, I have taught that.

Colossians 3:13 "bear with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgive each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive."

The older I get, the more I realize that if you want the kind of life that God promises you, you must become an expert at forgiveness. You need to be the best person in your family at forgiveness the best person at your church and work, the best person on your street at this all important biblical, necessary, required skill.

James McDonald said I've said it for years, "There are no enduring relationships without forgiveness." Is there someone who you need to forgive? My guess is that the Lord is bringing their face to your mind right now. Ask Him to begin His work of mercy and grace in your heart. The last thing you need in 2008 is yesterday's baggage.

Charles E. Whisnant - December 18th 2007

Please pray for Charity and I as we seek again a place of ministry, and that we have a good garage sale.

"God enters creation as every human ever has -- but though the way is common, it is God who takes that way tonight, so the birth is uncommon indeed, a crack in the universe, and the baby blazes with divinity."

Walter Wangerin, Jr

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Top Things I Hope NOT to Find Under My Tree in the Morning...

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Here are some things that I hope I DON'T find under my tree in the morning... Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they're probably the perfect gift for someone on your list... just not me.

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The IWJO (I Watch Joel Osteen) Lapel PinAgain,

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• this is for real... "Show your support for Pastor Joel and spread the message of his ministry by wearing this beautiful pin. As non-believers ask their co-workers, friends and neighbors about the I W J O logo, it will give them the opportunity to learn about and receive Christ as their Savior through Pastor Joel's Ministry at Lakewood Church. (Excuse me... but I find it hard to find much of the salvation message many times when listening to Joel himself... This, to me, is really just a cheap knock-off of the Jerry Fawell "Jesus First" pin that I used to own... I think I'll pass on this one... please don't buy this for me this holiday season). Price: $4.95 + shipping/handling. (Car decals are also available.)

HOLY BIBLE: THE LIVING NEW TESTAMENT read Jan Crouch

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Rev. Jimmy Swaggart Autographed/Autograph 8x10 Photo

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New Gay and Lesbian Bible Combats Judgmental Christians and Mistranslation

• ^
  "Deep in the shuddering guts of that religion known as Christianity is a rich and troubling history of persecution. Bullying. The singling-out those the Church professes to be Anti-God, such as Gay, Lesbian, Bi- sexual and Transgendered people. All built up from the foundation that is God's word, the Bible. Only it isn’’t. There is no Scriptural foundation for this persecution, no anti-gay passages in the Bible that the Church professes there are. There have been mistranslations. Check. Persecutions. Check. Bullying on the largest scale. Check. But none of this is set down in the Bible as God's way. Hence Smith and Stirling Publishing announces the release of a new and only LGBT Study Bible, "Study New Testament for Lesbian, Gay, Bi and Transgender: With Extensive Notes on Greek Word Meaning and Context." The translator is Dr A. Nyland, an ancient Greek language scholar and lexicographer..."

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"Jesus Hates it When You Smoke" Ashtray Jesus,

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• the Prince of Peace gazes balefully upwards at your approaching cigarette... How does that make you feel? 'JESUS HATES IT WHEN YOU SMOKE' reads the print inside this provocative, righteous ashtray. Sticker on bottom reads: "use of this product may be hazardous to your health and/or eternal soul". (This'd be a great soul-winning tool for those 'turn or burn' sign holders).

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Eyes of Tammy Faye, A Poster on Ebay

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Greatest Gift of All Santa and Baby Jesus Figurine

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THANK GOODNESS I DIDN'T GET ANY OF THESE GIFTS

But rather I received a gift of having all my kids homes for Christmas

Eric and Leslie, Chad and Heather, and Becky (Joe was still in Kansas) and Kyle

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CHRISTMAS WAS NOT OPTIONAL

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"All of this because he was born. He was incarnate. He was the God-man. No incarnation, no regeneration. No faith. No justification. No purification. No final glorification. Christmas was not optional. And therefore being rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us, while we were dead in trespasses, God sent his Son into the world to live without sin and die in our place. What a great love the Father has shown to us! What a great obedience and sacrifice the Lord Jesus gave for us! What a great awakening the Spirit has worked in us to bring us to faith and everlasting life! Amen. " John Piper

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Who was this Baby Jesus that was born?

1. The Sovereign Who Denied Himself (Phil 2:6)
2. The Servant Who Emptied Himself (Phil 2:7)

3. The Savior Who Humbled Himself (Phil 2:8)

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JESUS IS THE LIGHT OF THE SINNERS LIFE

One of the favorite traditions of the Christmas season is to illuminate the night with lights. Before we even turn the calendar to December, neighborhoods and businesses, homes and churches all burst in patterns of red, green, and white. Who doesn’t enjoy decorating the Christmas tree, then turning out all the other lights in the room to enjoy the twinkling lights? Even the flame of a single candle burns brightly against the backdrop of darkness. Even if I really don't like putting any of the lights up. I don't put up lights. Lazy I guess.

This tradition is well suited to the real celebration of the season. The Bible says that when Jesus Christ was born, the light came into the world (John 3:19) In fact, more than 200 times throughout the Bible, God is described as light. Figuratively and literally, whenever God appears, light appears. It happened in the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth, and all the way at the end of time when the book of Revelation tells us that in hell there will only be darkness and in heaven there will only be light.

When we celebrate Christmas, we remember the day in history when Jesus stepped from heaven to earth, bringing with Him the light that drives out the darkness in our hearts. This is amazing news! The person who wanted you to read this didn’t want you to be left in the dark about the greatest offer you could ever be given—the gift of life and light. The Bible says, "In [Christ] was life, and the life was the light of men" (John 1:4).

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The Whisnant family and the Temple family were together this Christmas and had wondeful time.

Kyle had his 23rd Birthday party on the 25th

Charity will have a birthday on the 28th

Eric and Leslie are doing great

Chad and Heather are working hard and doing good

Becky and Joe are doing great in Kansas

Charity's mother is not doing well, pray for the family

Charity's dad is still a Fundamentalist

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“The Twelve Days of Theology"

:
On the first day of Theology my professor gave to me atonement on an old tree.

On the second day of Theology my professor gave to me two Testaments and atonement on an old tree.

On the third day of Theology my professor gave to me three divine persons, two Testaments, and atonement on an old tree.

On the fourth day of Theology my professor gave to me four Gospel books, three divine persons, two Testaments, and atonement on an old tree.

On the fifth day of Theology my professor gave to me five points of Calvinism! Four Gospel books, three divine persons, two Testaments, and atonement on an old tree.

On the sixth day of Theology my professor gave to me six days of creation, five points of Calvinism! Four Gospel books, three divine persons, two Testaments, and atonement on an old tree.

On the seventh day of Theology my professor gave to me seven churches in Asia, six days of creation, five points of Calvinism! Four Gospel books, three divine persons, two Testaments, and atonement on an old tree.

On the eighth day of Theology my professor gave to me eight persons on the ark, seven churches in Asia, six days of creation, five points of Calvinism! Four Gospel books, three divine persons, two Testaments, and atonement on an old tree.

On the ninth day of Theology my professor gave to me nine fruits of the Spirit, eight persons on the ark, seven churches in Asia, six days of creation, five points of Calvinism! Four Gospel books, three divine persons, two Testaments, and atonement on an old tree.

On the tenth day of Theology my professor gave to me ten Commandments, nine fruits of the Spirit, eight persons on the ark, seven churches in Asia, six days of creation, five points of Calvinism! Four Gospel books, three divine persons, two Testaments, and atonement on an old tree.

On the eleventh day of Theology my professor gave to me eleven apostles on Easter, ten Commandments, nine fruits of the Spirit, eight persons on the ark, seven churches in Asia, six days of creation, five points of Calvinism! Four Gospel books, three divine persons, two Testaments, and atonement on an old tree.

On the twelfth day of Theology my professor gave to me twelve tribes of Israel, eleven apostles on Easter, ten Commandments, nine fruits of the Spirit, eight persons on the ark, seven churches in Asia, six days of creation, five points of Calvinism! Four Gospel books, three divine persons, two Testaments, and atonement on an old tree.

http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/12/17/the-twelve-days-of-theology/

THE DEATH OF DISCERNMENT

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Ps.96:13 - Before the LORD: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth.

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There is much talk of discernment these days and in fact there should be. It is impossible to keep pace with the avalanche of new and exciting and utterly false teachings that are now being embraced within Christian circles. Think about these teachings:

• There is no hell
• Everyone will be saved
• Jesus was not unique
• The cross was not primarily an atonement
• The Scriptures are not authoritative
• Homosexuality is not a sin
• Truth is not really necessary, who can know truth

The average church goer would not even have a working grasp of what discernment is and its place in a believer’s life. This is so very sad when we consider the Lord has so graciously given us His written Word along with great men and women of God to unfold its treasures under the anointing of God’s Holy Spirit. The doctrines that are being tampered with are not fringe issues, many of the fringe issues are already gone. These teachings are altering basic and foundational doctrines that evangelical denominations from a wide spectrum would consider established truth. And yet the average professor of religion drives to "his" church, sends his children to their well organized places of care, and wanders into the sanctuary without a thought, much less a prayer, about the Biblical authenticity of what he will hear. Most of the time the sermon title is all he should require.

Every Christian who listens to the preaching or teaching of the Word of God, should know the reasons the speaker says what he says. What does he believe about the Word of God? What does he believe to be truth? What does he believe about Jesus Christ? What does he believe about how a person becomes a Christian?

YOU JUST DON'T JUST LISTEN TO PREACHING WITHOUT SOME DISCERNMENT

Good Preaching:

• Consistently declares the wonderful acts of God, supremely the redeeming work of His eternal Son.
• It labors to convince us about our place in relation to those wonderful acts.
• We are participants in them, not spectators of them.
• Good preching directs us to the word of God, the Scriptures: there to find our life in the drama of redemption.
• It draws us into the text to be confronted with:
• the revelation of the awesomeness of God
• the certainties of His justice
• the comforts of His mercy
• the means by which He gathers His elect

Good preaching is God-centered, not man-centered. The content of the message is more about God, Jesus Christ than himself. Sometimes autobiographical are more important. Preaching is not first of all about what may have happened to me or to you, but what has most assuredly happen to Jesus Christ.

Good preaching is:

Scripture-centered, not headline centered; event-centered, not idea-centered; church centered, not culture-centered, nor even behavior-centered.

I believe preaching/teaching should be focused on the content of the text. You don't force your point of view in to the text.

This doesn't mean you do not address issues, but if the Scripture address an issue you address the issue.

PREACHING is the PREACHER: But the preaching will reveal the PREACHER.

THE BEST WAY TO KNOW IF THE PREACHING IS GOOD, KNOW THE TEXT.

HOW DO YOU STAND ON THE TRUTH ISSSUE

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Much of the visible church nowadays seems to think Christians are supposed to be at play rather than at war. The idea of actually fighting for doctrinal truth is the furthest thing from most churchgoers' thoughts. Contemporary Christians are determined to get the world to like them——and of course in the process they also want to have as much fun as possible.

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They are so obsessed with making the church seem "cool" to unbelievers that they can't be bothered with questions about whether another person's doctrine is sound or not. In a climate like that, the thought of even identifying someone else's teaching as false (much less "contending earnestly" for the faith) is a distasteful and dangerously counter-cultural suggestion.

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Christians have bought into the notion that almost nothing is more "uncool" in the world's eyes than when someone shows a sincere concern about the danger of heresy. After all, the world simply doesn't take spiritual truth that seriously, so they cannot fathom why anyone would.

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But Christians of all people ought to be most willing to live and die for the truth.

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Remember, we know the truth, and the truth has set us free (John 8:32). We should not be ashamed to say so boldly (Psalm 107:2). And if called upon to sacrifice for the truth's sake, we need to be willing and prepared to give our lives. Again, that is exactly what Jesus was speaking about when he called His disciples to take up a cross (Matthew 16:24).

Cowardice and authentic faith are antithetical.

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Every attempt to define truth in non-biblical terms has ultimately failed. That's because God is the source of all that exists (Romans 11:36).

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• He alone defines and delimits what is true. He is also the ultimate revealer of all truth. Every truth revealed in nature was authored by Him (Psalm 19:1-6); and some of it is His own self-revelation (Romans 1:20).
• He gave us minds and consciences to perceive the truth and comprehend right from wrong, and He even wired us with a fundamental understanding of His law written on our hearts (Romans 2:14-15). On top of all that,
• He gave us the perfect, infallible truth of Scripture (Psalm 19:7-11), which is a sufficient revelation of everything that pertains to life and godliness (2 Peter 1:3; 2 Timothy 3:15-17), in order to lead us to Him as Savior and Lord.
• Finally, He sent Christ, the very embodiment of truth itself as the culmination of divine revelation (Hebrews 1:1-3). The whole point and the ultimate reason for all of this was for God to reveal Himself to His creatures (Ezekiel 38:23).

All truth therefore starts with what is true of God:

• who He is,
• what His mind knows,
• what His holiness entails,
• what His will approves, and so on. In other words, all truth is determined and properly explained by the being of God.

Therefore every notion of His non-existence is by definition untrue. That is precisely what the Bible teaches: "The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God'" (Psalm 14:1; 53:1).

The ramifications of all truth starting with God are profound. Returning to a point we touched on earlier: Here is the reason why once someone denies God, logical consistency will ultimately force to that person to deny all truth. A denial that God exists instantly removes the whole justification for any kind of knowledge. As Scripture says, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge" (Proverbs 1:7).

So the necessary starting point for gaining authentic understanding of the fundamental concept of truth itself is an acknowledgment of the one true God.

As Augustine said, we believe in order to understand, and our faith in turn is fed and strengthened as we gain better understanding. Both faith in God as He has revealed Himself and the understanding wrought by faith are therefore essential if we hope to apprehend truth in any serious and meaningful sense.

Scripture describes all authentic Christians as those who know the truth and have been liberated by it (John 8:32).

• They believe it with a whole heart (2 Thessalonians 2:13).
• They obey the truth through the Spirit of God (1 Peter 1:22).
• And they have received a fervent love for the truth through the gracious work of God in their hearts (2 Thessalonians 2:10).

According to the Bible, then, you haven't really grasped the truth at all if there's no sense in which you know it, believe it, submit to it, and love it.

Clearly, the existence of absolute truth and its inseparable relationship to the person of God is the most essential tenet of all truly biblical Christianity.

Speaking plainly: if you are one of those who questions whether truth is really important, please don't call your belief system "Christianity" because that's not what it is.

Adopted from John MacArthur's Jr. book The Truth War.

Thus we need to know just what the preacher is teaching as truth, and how he is arriving at that truth. Its our responsibility to know not just to listen and accept everything we hear as truth.

"HERMENEUTICS:

HOW DID JESUS AND THE APOSTLES USE THE OLD TESTAMENT

part two

Home Kent has commented:

• Christ's direct uses of the Old Testament employed the references in their literal sense. None were typological. All treated the Old Testament text in its obvious gramamatical and historical meaning. Here is certainly to be found a significant pattern and a caution for all interpreters of Scripture" (Bibliotheca Sacra, 121-481 (Jan. 1964)

John Feinberg said:

• There is no such thing as the NT pattern of OT usage." but rather that "there are varieties of NT uses of the OT"

The difference between human interpretation and divine inspiration separates the modern-day exegete from the NT writers in such a way that the former is not able to employ the methods of the latter. In other words, the NT writers were under inspiration from the Holy Spirit. Today the modern interdpreter is not.

• John Walton writes:

"We cannot speak of reproducing the methods of the NT authors, for the subjectivity of their methods is not allowed to those of us who interpretation does not enjoy the affirmation of inspiration."
In my opinion, when Jesus used the quote in Matthew 4 from Deut 6 the quote was not about Himself. But about Satan temptation to the people in the wilderness. Jesus did not spiritualize the passage. So you would have to interpret Deut. 6 in order to understand what Jesus meant in Matthew 4
I take the Old Testament as literal. In other words when the OT speaks of a 1000 year Kingdom, I believe 1000 years means 1000 years. Here is what John MacArthur says,
"Is the OT Amillennial? Now a note here please. It is not legitimate to interpret the OT as secondary to the NT as primary. That's not legitimate. Otherwise the OT was literally darkness, not light. If you say that the OT cannot be rightly interpreted apart from the NT, then you have denied the perspiculity of the OT, and as Walt Kaiser put it:

• "Now you have a canon within a canon". The question must be answered: Does the Old Testament itself propound an Amillennial View? (that is no Kingdom). You cannot remove the OT from having a true interpretation on its own and make OT promises relate to the Church, which is by Paul's own statement, a mystery and irreleveant to the readers. But the idea that the NT is the starting point for understanding the OT is exactly where Amillennialism comes from, reading it back into the OT; and, of course, you damage the perspicuity or the clarity of the sensibility of the OT in and of itself; and it leads, I think, to an even more grand kind of spiritualizing that goes beyound just prophetic texts and gives license to spiritulize all kinds of things and read NT Christianity and NT Christian principles back into those texts in the OT where they do not belong."

Here is what MacArthur is saying: He believes that it is actually a future saved generation of Jews and the millennium that they dominate and the restored temple and worship God which is the true and final historical fulfillment of the OT.
In my opinion the OT leads to the Church in the NT.
Robert L. Thomas on the NT use of the OT says this:

• "When interpreting the OT and NT, each in light of the single. grammatical-historical meaning of the passage, two kinds of NT use of the OT surface, one in which the NT writer observes the grammatical-historical sense of the OT passage and the other in which the NT writes goes beyond the grammatical-historical sense in his use of the OT passage."

Footnote:
John F. MacArthur, Jr. (born June 14, 1939 in Los Angeles, California) is an American Reformed evangelical writer and minister, most noted for his radio program entitled Grace to You. MacArthur is a fifth-generation pastor, a popular author and conference speaker, and has served as pastor-teacher of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California since 1969, and as President of The Master's College (and the related Master's Seminary) in Santa Clarita, California.
Homer Kent has now retired after serving at Grace Theological Seminary, Winona Lake, IN for fifty years as professor of Greek and New Testament (1949-99).
Robert L. Thomas: has served on the board of directors for the Orinoco River Mission and for the Bible Church Mission. Throughout his years of ministry, he has been active in his local church, in Bible conference ministries, and in pulpit supply. In 1959 he became the first full-time seminary faculty member at Talbot Theological Seminary. He served at Talbot as chairman of the department of New Testament Language and Literature until 1987 when he joined the faculty at The Master's Seminary.
John Feinberg: (b. 1946) - progressive dispensationalist professor at Trinity Evangelical Divinitiy School.
Walter C. Kaiser, Jr. (born 1933) is an American evangelical Old Testament scholar, writer, popular public speaker, and educator. Kaiser is the Colman M. Mockler distinguished Professor of Old Testament and former President of Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in South Hamilton, Massachusetts, retired June 30, 2006. He was succeeded by James Emery White.
John Walton: Ph.D. 1981 Hebrew and Cognate Studies, Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion, Cincinnati, Ohio. Dissertation: The Tower of Babel M.A. 1975 Biblical Studies: Old Testament; Wheaton Graduate School A.B. 1974 Economics/Accounting, Muhlenberg College, Allentown, PA
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HERMENEUTICS

HOW DID JESUS AND THE APOSTLES USE THE OLD TESTAMENT
vs.
"speculative human reasoning"?

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We should not use scripture out of context, and when Jesus or Paul or Peter or John quoted the Old Testament, we should know what the Old Testament passage meant.

In other words, made the text say what we want the verse to say to prove our point.

HOW THE NEW TESTAMENT WRITERS INTERPRET THE OLD TESTAMENT?

part one

One question we should consider is how did Christ interpret the OT
HOW DID JESUS USE THE OLD TESTAMENT HE QUOTED:

The chaps at Expository Thoughts have a series on The Relationship of the Testaments. From the post on Apostolic Hermeneutic:

• ... the New Testament writers’ use of the Old Testament was a function of divine inspiration, and not simply a matter of human interpretation carried out in accordance with divinely revealed hermeneutical principles. In other words, when the apostle Paul quoted or alluded to the OT in his epistles, he wasn’t applying God-given hermeneutical principles to various passages in the Old Testament; he was being superintended by the Holy Spirit in such a way that he wrote precisely what God was pleased to communicate through him. The NT writers, then, do not claim a superior hermeneutical approach to the OT; they claim inspiration. For those who are not able to claim inspiration, this method cannot be employed.

Sola Scriptura

Question One:

WHAT WAS JESUS' ATTITUDE ABOUT THE OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES?

Matthew 4:4,7, 10

What did Deut 6 say in relationship to what Jesus said to Satan?What truths for our Christian life are in Jesus' citation of these particular Scriptures?Jesus was quoting from Deut 6:13-16 10:20 He was referring to Israel's journey in the wilderness experience where the grumbling Israelites put the Lord to the test, angrily demanding that Moses produce water where there was none. (MacArthur Study Bible)

The context of Matthew four had to do with Satan's temptation of Christ in the wilderness. Jesus used an old testament principle given to the Israelites that was still in effect to Satan in Jesus day.

My point:

• If you are going to refer to a text, get the context correct. Knowing and studying the scriptures should be priority before you make comment.Before you say what Jesus meant by what he said, you need to know what he meant. And you need to know what the text he quoted indicated

Acording to Silva, the NT writers were so acquainted with the Scriptures that they would often make "relatively casual references" to the OT. "If they did," Silva writes, "these casual references would reveal nothing about their exegetical method. I couldn’t agree more.

John Walton takes this a step further. According to Walton, the "NT authors never claim to have engaged in a hermeneutical process, nor do they claim that they can support their findings from the text; they claim inspiration"

With this in mind, it is obvious that the modern-day interpreter who seeks to imitate the NT writers’ "interpretations" of the OT will be led astray at times, for often the NT writer is not engaging in the process of interpretation.

When dealing with the use of the OT in the NT, I believe we need to study each passage in its own original context—honoring the principle of "the progress of revelation" in the process—and then determine the relationship between the two, without simply assuming that relationship at the beginning.

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CHRISTMAS AND THE CHRISTMAS TREE

Some one will always make an objection to something done around this time of year. Lights, bulbs, trees, buying gifts, parties, eggnog, and a host of other things during this season.

I am just lazy!

Is there any biblical objection for Christians to forgo any of the things that many people do during this season?

There is a verse that can be used for any objection and usually the context of the verse is out of context.

For example Jeremiah 10 is commonly used to support the viewpoint against putting up a tree. But a closer look at the passage will show that it has nothing to do with what we call a ‘Christmas tree’ and everything to do with idol worship.

Context: As a footnote in our Discipleship Hour on Sunday, the lesson was on John Wycliffe. And the worksheet study was:

Before you say what Jesus meant by what he said, you need to know what he meant.
Same point there:

Jeremiah 10 does not refer to a Christmas Tree

Exodus 20:3-6 does not give any connection between the worship of idols and the use of Christmas trees. We should not be anxious about baseless arguments against Christmas decorations.

Eric and Leslie and Charity put up a tree in our house this year.

posted by Charles E. Whisnant

COMMENT BY MY SISTER ELLEN

Season's Greetings, Big Bro!
Love that stamp!!!! And the article you wrote...especially since I have five Christmas trees up this year. OH NO! And I sd I was not going to decorate much this go round! ouch. I have bumps, bruises, and scraps to prove it! What a person will go thru to bring pleasure for others to behold! And, no, I am NOT trying to be seen from space...as in a movie we saw recently.
OK, so you know, I have one 7-8 ft. tree and the others are all MUCH smaller....one on the front porch, one in the kitchen, one in GG's room, and one in the spare bedroom, and one on the fireplace hearth. oops, I miscounted..that would make six! sextuplets ouch.
And I do have a story about the big Christmas tree. Maybe I will send it out with my cards this year.
I do appreciate the context of your article about losing the context in our Scripture interpretation. We are all guilty. We use way too much "poetic license" (if I may say it that way) and then stamp it with God as the Author, when He was never even consulted. And what does the Word say about adding to His Word????? Big OUCH. Regardless, we all need to take heed to your words of exhortation.
In re to your reminding us about idols, my take is that ANYTHING (AND ANYBODY) including Christmas trees can become an idol to us. In and of themselves they are just an object in space, but what we do with them is the question. We are so quick to point our fingers at the Israelites and their cycle of idol abuses in the Bible, when all the while throughout our lives we have been surrounded by our own idols of choice. Who could cast the first stone? I dare say any one of us. If you think you (readers) don't fall into that category, you are deeper in the hole of denial than the rest of us. Which by the way is an idol...denial that is. Uh huh, think about it.
What do idols look like in the 21st century? Are they the decorations, the gifts, the music, time, FOOD, and then there is Food, and then food (really, it's all about the same!), and what about drinks? I don't mean just alcohol...but carbonated drinks (yes, that includes diet drinks as well!). Too, what about saying yes to everything and to everybody....even in church? That would be the idol of "doing". And we can't leave out...people be it our spouses, our children (I know no mother has that issue), and MYOB idolatry (stay out of their buswacks). We can't leave out dogs, cats, pigs, horses, jackrabbits, armadillos, road runners, geckos? Oops, got carried away...we have strange animals down here in Big T.
So as you challenged us, in a world of commercial appeal to the masses, we all have to be ALERT to what takes the place of our Holy Father in Heaven this Christmas REASON.
And how do we stay alert? I think a sound question considering most of us are in denial about our own stuff. HELLO! I would say begin by asking God to not just show us, cause we are too blind to see (we're dumb sheep remember), but to break us. OUCH. I think I had rather come out of denial faster than a snowman melts in Texas heat. We might want to ask those who know us well what they see as idols in our lives...and I don't mean asking for lip service (no kissy kissy stuff either) or asking people who are about pleasing (a.k.a. dulling the senses) rather than sharpening the mind and heart.
Just one of your readers in progress,
sister ellen marie (and, no, I am not a nun)

Honoring Less-than-Perfect Parents

How often do we learn of children who were terribly treated when they were young, children whose father and mother divorced, or a father took his life, and the child was left to deal with the blight the rest of their youth. There are many other illustrations that many have struggled with in their youth. And yet the Lord said "Honor thy father and mother." Is this for only the perfect father and perfect mother? Or does this command for the less-then-perfect parent?

When I was living at home, in Roanoke, Virginia, there were a family of five children with a mother who came to church and a dad who would not come. The dad was into sinful and unlawful activity. He wanted to get out of town, and had his wife to ask dad if they could use one of our cars to take a trip. Dad said yes, and the family left for Chicago, Il. We didn’t hear from them for several months, and had no clue where they were at the time. Finally, we received a call from the wife, and she said, her husband and taken his life. He went out into the garage and turned on the car’s engine and the exhaust killed him. She said he owed the mob money and he could not pay them, both in Roanoke and then again in Chicago.

The family came back to Roanoke, but the car stayed in Chicago. For the next years the kids were in and out of trouble, and had troubled lives. I remember my father never had a bad word for the dad, something that I couldn’t help but wonder why. The dad had just stolen our car and then when in trouble, took his own life, and left a wife and five children to fend for themselves. The children seemed to have no idea of what their dad was doing, and they thought their dad was just not perfect. But he left them homeless.

Does the Bible command children to "honor their father" if their father is perfect, or near perfect or not perfect at all? Was this commandment given for believers or unbelievers. The Ten Commandments were first given to the Israelites, and most of them were not saved. The commandments didn’t have sub-points, to qualify the command.

Craig Dunham in TwentySomeone tells of his friend Derek:

• My friend Derek grew up in a messed-up home. His dad left when he was young. His whole family fell apart after the divorce. He lived with his mom, but was basically on his own from age 13 on. After graduating from high school, Derek became a Christian on a cross-country bike trip. He put himself through college by starting his own company to renovate old houses. He's now on staff with a campus ministry.
  I've never heard Derek speak bitterly about his father or his past. Derek and Angie consider themselves the first generation to end the cycle of dysfunction in their families and set a new foundation for their kids. Instead of hiding or feeling sorry for themselves, they've resolved to deal head-on with the awkwardness of it all, and not give up on their strained family relationships.
  
  

Who Said It Frederick Buechner

"One November morning when I was ten years old," writes this author in Telling Secrets, "my father——a gentle man who was down on his luck and drank too much——got up early, opened the door to look in briefly on my younger brother and me playing a game in our room, and then went down into the garage where he turned on the engine of the family Chevy and sat down on a running board," where eventually the exhaust killed him.

How often do we learn of children who were terribly treated when they were young. Children whose father and mother divorced, or a father took his life, and the child was left to deal with the blight the rest of their youth. There are no perfect parents and some who are just right down bad parents.

And children who do not learn to honor their parents will struggle in just about every area of life.

What He SaidCode of Honor

• "Honor your father and mother," says the Fifth Commandment. Honor them for having taken care of you before you were old enough to take care of yourself …… for the sacrifices they made on your behalf …… for having loved you.

But how do you honor them when, well-intentioned as they may have been, they made terrible mistakes that have shadowed your life ever since? How do you honor them when they literally, or otherwise, abandoned you? When physically, or sexually, or emotionally, they abused you?

• Honor them for the pain that made them what they were. Honor them because there were times when, even at their worst, they were doing the best they knew how.
• Honor them for the roles they were appointed to play, because even when they played them abominably or didn't play them at all.
• Honor them because, however unthinkingly or irresponsibly, they gave you your life."

Drafted by Charles E. Whisnant 12 09 07 Proof Read by Charity Whisnant

^

HOW TO COMMUNICATE YOUR DESIRES
Charles E. Whisnant

part two

Let me list a few ways in which people use their talents and gifts and express their thinking. And ways they accomplish this.

Examples:

My brother has an email in which he writes a paragraph each day of some philosophy he has about living out the Christian life.

Albert Mohler, professor of a Seminary, and teacher in a church, uses the web to communicate his Christian viewpoint on some event in our culture.

Phil Johnson, Dan Philips and Frank Turk have a blogger called teampyro in which they address important issues facing the church today. As to date they have had over 1.4 million to view the sight.

Pulpit Magazine, a web with the Shepherd Conferences and John MacArthur, Jr.
Nathan Busenitz

ExpositoryThoughts is a group of preachers who address issues in the church, and is for pastors and leaders. Paul Lamey, Matt

John Hendryx has Monergism.com, a web site he has dedicated himself to provide the

Reformers doctrines. This site I have been going to for four years. He provides, I would say, over a thousand articles and sermons from the Reformers.
And where John and John Samson write.

Tony Capoccia of has provided material since the beginning of the www. He has sermons from the evangelical viewpoint, such as John MacArthur, Jr. There are manuscripts of John’s sermons. Tony provides sermons from Charles Spurgeon, Whitefield, Watson, Edwards, Ryle and transcripts from the Shepherd’s Conference.

Phil Johnson has a web site that is a web log, a list of links of other web sites. He provides links which provide doctrinal studies, church studies, etc. Phil’sBookmark

Phil Johnson has The Spurgeon Archive. Sermons of Charles Spurgeon. What a project.

Preachers, ministers and pastors who have radio and tv ministries now have web sites. Like Grace to You by John MacArthur, Insight For Living by Church Swindoll, In touch by Charles Stanley, David Jeremiah’s Turning Point.

You have Christian leaders, such as James Dobson Focus on the Family, and Dennis Ramey on Family Life Today. Then the late Larry Burkett on Money Matters.

You have Christian women, such as Joni Earickson Tada who has not only a radio program but a good ministry to the handicapped.

Many good News outlets are now on the www. Hank Hanegraaff, president of the Christian Research Institute, an evangelical apologetics group in Charlotte, N.C.

You have Barna Research team designed to research the lives of Christians.

On a daily basis I could receive a hundred different emails if I choose.
Daily Devotions from Chuck Swindoll, Charles Spurgeon, Oswald Chambers, and Tozer, and even pastors of churches not as well known as these have a weekly devotion sent via email

Ray Pritchard has an e mail list of 3900 to which he sends out his sermons. He is not pastoring now, and this is a good means of communication with others.

John Stott ministry is done by a group of people daily. Biblestudy@john stott.com

Jim Bublitz works out of his home. He is not a pastor, but he loves the truth. He has a great web site.

Blogger a site for what is called blogspots. They are free and you have a chance to write your thoughts and have others who desire to write and make comments.

A place where students in Edinburgh Scotland and write reports on Puritans.
I don’t know who controls CROSSWALK, but it’s one of the better sites You could spend all day on this sight.

Sola Scriptura Ministries International. Table Talk Magazine. Good books, etc.
A site that lists conferences and is used to promote sola Scriptura.

Church Growth Institute, received via e mail provides a daily devotion, and resources for church growth any ministry.

E mail daily provides a ministry of short quotes from Reformers. A group of people who work hard doing this. Very good.
TO NAME JUST A FEW OF THE MEANS USED TO communicate OVER THE WEB.

You know the phrase that I have not liked "Follow your heart"? There is some truth in that, because it’s the desire of my heart to know the Lord, and to communicate what He is saying to others.

Personally, I like the one-on-one in person communicating, but when it’s not always possible, the medium of the web is okay. May the Lord open the means He will allow me to use.

Charles E. Whisnant 12 05 2007 Proof Read by Charity Whisnant 12 -06 -7
Posted on Blogger 12 06 07

HOW TO COMMUNICATE YOUR DESIRES
Charles E. Whisnant

part 1

^

I picked up the Citizens’ Newspaper, Scioto edition 12 05 07 and read an article on "Embracing Technology: The Digital Divide." In reading this article here is a quote from Billy Graham:

• "Why are we as Christian Americans still celebrating the invention of the printing press when we have today’s mass media?"
  
• The article points out: "throughout church history technological advancements have had significant influence on the life and work of the church." Church as we know it today will be effective only as we learn how to use these new technology methods.
• This line of thought directed me to Google search "Digital Technology". One article: "Digital Technology and its Impact on how Education," And another article "DTV" is COMING (AND SOONER THAN YOU THINK) By February 17, 2009 the FCC will require digital broadcasting.
  
• I had a need to tell someone about this information I had just read.
  

Earlier last week I was reading Albert Mohler’s commentary on For Toddlers, Toy of Choice Is Tech Device. Then I received an e-mail from Wal Mart about buying toys for preschoolers. I had this need to give this information to parents

I wrote an article about what I had been reading on my blog.

Earlier on Monday and Tuesday I was all over the www. I do that a lot. I was writing an article on the Blogger, then having Charity proof read the material. Then I sent an E-Mail to a list of people about this article(s), telling them to view the articles on my blog site CWhisna.blogspot.com.

As I am doing all this writing and research, and downloading articles of interest, I am saying to myself, "why am I doing all this?" Why do I feel and think and have the desire to assimilate all this material, and why do I desire to communicate this learning to others?

I am sixty years old, and have been teaching and preaching and communicating the Word of God since I was sixteen years old. I am not ready for the rocki n’ chair yet. There is this internal clock that is humming in my soul and heart each minute of the day. There is this motivation to learn and then to tell someone else what I have learned. This has been the situation as long as I can remember.

This idea of communicating is okay if you have an outlet, like pastoring a church, or teaching a Bible class, or holding some position in the local church or have some other ministry outside the local church.

Pastor Frank who is pastor of the church I currently attend was right when he said, "Charles, I don’t think you are going to be happy until you are pastoring a church." He is not so happy that I am trying to help him pastor the church he is called to pastor. The church pays him very well to do so. And the church has an associate who is well paid to help the senior pastor. The church has three other lay elders and six deacons. Also, as of this year they have six small groups with the pastors/elders teaching them. The church has two adult classes with two other teachers besides the Pastor and Associate.

So I tell myself, and they tell me the same, the church doesn’t need another pastor or teacher! The church should be well equipped to serve and teach the membership all they need to become "full grown saints."

So what am I to do with my forty year old spiritual gift?

Next , stay tune.

^

Charles

FOR TODDLES, TOY OF CHOICE IS TECH DEVICE
^

Dr. Al Mohler's blog daily is a good form to view a Christian View on the Culture of today.

^

WHAT ARE YOUR CHILDREN ASKING FOR CHRISTMAS?

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Preschoolers Toy wishes list: cellphones, laptops, digital cameras and MP3 music players are among the hottest gift items this year. For preschoolers. For children three and up.
-

The Easy Link Internet Launch Pad from Fisher-Price. This top like is to help children surf on "preschool-appropriate Web sites. And Smart Cycle, and exercise bike connected to a video game.

-
The biggest toy companies don’t even call it the toy business anymore Now they are in the family entertainment business and the leisure business. Jim Silver, editor of Toy Wishes magazine said, "They are vying for kids’ leisure time."

-
From Amazon.com six of the nine best selling toys for 5 to 7 year olds were tech gadgets. It’s the screen they like. The kids no longer like computer without computer monitors, U.S.B. cables and memory cards–

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If you give kids an old toy camera! They will look at you like you’re crazy. Kids now know what a real cellphone looks like and they want one.

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Now the kids want a laptop. Kids are different from the way we were in our days. Even as last as 10 years ago.

-
There is the LeapFrog ClilckStart My First Computer, which gives children ages 3 and up a keyboard to help thelm learn computeer basics, using a TV screen as a monitor.

-
SO DOES A COMPUTER BELONG IN THE CRIB

^

Donald L. Shifrin, a pediatrician based in Seattle and the spokesman for the academy, said tech toys cannot replace imaginative play, where children create rich narratives and interact with peers or parents.

-
"Are we creating media use as a default for play?" Dr. Shifrin asked. "When kids want to play, will they ask, ‘‘Where’s the screen?’
-

&

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I bought a Lexmark Printer on line from Wal Mart, a ten dollar saving, and a printer that was not in our local Wal Mart. As a result I receive e mails of specials from them. Thank of that.

&

-

They listed toys for preschoolers 3years old and tech for kids 4 to 7.

-

(I do not have the ability on this blog to have pictures, I need to update)

-

• Slide an activity page into the VTech Whiz Kid system's learning board and it magically knows what activities to play! With a touch-sensitive screen and stylus, and over 100 different activities and games, the fun never ends! If you lose a sheet, it's no problem: just print out another one from the included CD-ROM. The Whiz Kid system even prints out a progress report, so you can keep tabs on your child's learning fun. The Whiz Kid Learning System is the new way to play!

• For budding readers, VTech's Nitro Notebook is a hi-tech tutor specially designed to teach language skills and more. In addition to social studies, math and art studies, kids master reading in English and Spanish as they play games that adapt to their learning needs.
  · Portable notebook-style computer with gray-scale LCD screen
  · QWERTY keyboard and plug-in mouse
  · 80 engaging activities teach reading skills in two languages
  · Kids love having their own computer with an endless selection of fun games and activities
  · Computer reads aloud stories to teach phonics and improve fluency
  · Developing readers learn at their own speed as Artificial Intelligence technology tracks their performance and adjusts skill levels as needed
  · Two interchangeable cartridges provide more reading games and foreign language activities

I really need this notebook and I am sixty!

^

comments:

-

My sister said (via e mail)

Good stuff on kiddos. I am certain this is what some thought, like our own dad did about the new tech back 40-50 yrs...i.e.,the TV. Mom sd he used to say of the TV..."It's a one-eyed monster."

-
About 10 yrs or so ago I heard a man speak at a local church about "the new language" we all better learn or we would be forever lost (no, not spiritually!)....called not English...but "Computer". He detailed how thru the ages there have been certain languages that people had to learn or they would not survive the changes. He predicted that "Computer" language was going to be the next to change the world and people who didn't learn it would be left behind. And is he ever on target. Like it or not.
-

Like in most anything, good and bad are involved. What we do with it as humans is the key. We are not going to stop technology, nor be able to keep kids from it. It is life in the 21st century. However, what we teach our kids to do with it is another story, don't you think?
-

And ALWAYS man has had the challenge of progress....from the beginning of the fall. Creative juices can flow even from the computer, whether we like to believe it or not. It's just a different medium by which it happens. Yet, there is something fulfilling about my grandchildren pulling out pots and pans and finding joy in that simple adventure. And every generation can come up with something that they wish their kids did that they "used" to do. I mean my mom talks about making paper dolls out of old Sears and Roebucks catalogs...along with other "handy" services those catalogs provided! Do I want to go back to that to spark my creativity? I think NOT! I'm thankful progress brought me paper dolls that came in a paper doll book and that I had white paper wrapped around a roll to take care of business. I think that was a bit graphic. Sorry.
-

Everything has its place in the time it was created. We can abuse anything...even Sears catalogs. I mean Mom's mother probably used leaves or something and NEVER heard of paper dolls. So it's all a matter of perspective. Think about it, without the computer and its tech we would not be reaching the vast with the Gospel.

-

your sis

Create an appetite for health and wellness today!

Ellen Marie

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SALVATION AND ENGLISH REFORMERS 1525 - 1556

Carl Trueman is Professor of Historical Theology and Church History at Westminster Theological Seminary. He was previously Lecturer in Theology at the University of Nottingham (1993-1998), and Senior Lecturer in Church History at the University of Aberdeen (1998-2001). He has also held the position of Editor of the theological journal, Themelios, since 1998.

Dr Trueman, your early research interest was on salvation in the writings of the English Reformers, as indicated in the title of the published version of your doctoral dissertation, Luther’s Legacy: Salvation and English Reformers, 1525-1556 (Clarendon, 1994). Could you share with us the thrust of this work and some of the factors that led you into serious research in this area?

• Initially, I was interested simply in examining the theology of a number of early English Reformers against the background of the continental Reformation. As you know, the English Reformation was much later in its development and articulation of a formal Protestant theology than, say, the members of the Schmalkaldic League or the Swiss Confederation. I wanted to find out what was going on in the minds of select intellectuals during the period from 1525, when William Tyndale made his abortive first attempt to publish the New Testament in English.

Since 1994, Reformed Orthodoxy in the seventeenth century seems to have been of special interest to you, especially the figure of John Owen. What led to this shift of interest from the 16th to the 17th century, and on Owen in particular?

• To date, you have published two books on Owen: Claims of Truth: the Trinitarian Theology of John Owen (Paternoster, 1994), and the very recent John Owen: Reformed Catholic, Renaissance Man (Ashgate, 2007). What are some areas of development between them?

If youdesire to future read what Truman had to say about John Owen and William Tyndale

go to "the conventicle. blogspot.com

AND HOW YOU SEE IT WILL DEPEND UPON WHO YOU ARE, AND HOW YOU SEE IT AND OFTEN HOW YOU HEAR IT

part two

THE BILL MOYER’S JOURNAL Transcripts gives this:


Let's take a look at different perceptions of The Middle East peace talks in Annapolis this week.

• The liberal NEW YORK TIMES found good news: "Israel and Palestinians set goal of a treaty in 2008."


• But the conservative NEW YORK SUN described the results with a militaristic metaphor: "Bush Declares 'Battle for Mideast.'"

A look at the headlines related to this week's conference on Mideast peace in Annapolis might leave a reader confused about expectations and results:

• "Restraint in Quest for Peace," THE NEW YORK TIMES; "Annapolis Talks Prompt Much


• Doubt, a Few Jokes, in Mideast," THE WASHINGTON POST, "Olmert warns of 'end of Israel'," THE BBC, "Annapolis conference gave Rice little to build on," NEWSDAY.
  As usual in the Middle East, what you see depends on who you are.

Pastor Hagee is one of the Christian right's most powerful preachers. Israel is his passion.

JOHN HAGEE: Let us shout it from the housetops that a new day has been born in America. The sleeping giant of Christian Zionism has awakened. If a line has to be drawn, draw the line around Christians and Jews. We are united. We are indivisible. And together we can reshape history. Among them was the organization Christians United for Israel - also known as CUFI.

THE JOURNAL gets theological and political perspective on the story in the Middle East from Ronald J. Sider, Professor of Theology and President of Evangelicals for Social Action, and from M.J. Rosenberg, Director of Policy Analysis for Israel Policy Forum.
Ronald J. Sider says,

The religious right - whether Pat Robertson, James Dobson or Rev. Hagee of Christians United for Israel - simply do not represent the evangelical center.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/blog/2007/11/an_evangelical_christian_for_p.html

Centrist evangelicals reject the key arguments of Christian Zionists.
Is there a biblical basis for supporting Israelis more than the Palestinians? Some point to God's promise to Abraham in Genesis 12:3: "I will bless those who bless you." Does that text mean that we ought to uncritically support the modern state of Israel? Hardly. The biblical prophets repeatedly taught that God demands justice of all people, starting with his chosen people. When the Israelis acted unjustly, God punished them. The best way Christians today can bless the descendants of the ancient Israelites is to urge them to practice the universal justice that their prophets proclaimed to the world. Today that means a fair, two-state solution.

Others will argue from a dispensationalist, pre-millennialist theology that God has established the modern state of Israel as a necessary part of the end-time scenario, preparing for Christ's second coming in the very near future (see Hal Lindsey's LATE GREAT PLANET EARTH and the Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins' LEFT BEHIND novels.) But this idea poses huge problems. For one thing, Christians for centuries have been pressing the imagery of Daniel and Revelation to find detailed predictions about the end of the world –– all of which have proved foolish and wrong!

To suggest that we know that Christ will return in the next few decades is flatly unbiblical. Jesus even said he did not know the time of his second coming (Matthew 24:36) –– beware of people who claim to know more than Jesus!

John Hagee says

• During the Holocaust, too many Christians were silent, and we were left to mourn the slaughter of 6 million Jews. Today, Bible-believing Christians must speak up and stand up for Israel. We must act to do whatever we can to protect Israel’s 6 million Jews from the second Holocaust. We must get it right this time. Our faith demands it. The times require it. Silence is not an option.


• The Bible commands us to pray for the peace of Jerusalem (Psalm 122:6), to speak out for Zion’s sake (Isaiah 62:1), to be watchmen on the walls of Jerusalem (Isaiah 62:6) and to bless the Jewish people (Genesis 12:3). These and so many other verses of the Bible have one overriding message-- as Christians we have a Biblical obligation to defend Israel and the Jewish people in their time of need.
  


• JOHN HAGEE: They intend to bring that bomb online and if they use it, you think gas is high now. Life as we know it is going to change instantly and forever and I'm telling you, you need to get your life ready to meet the son of God in all his glory. It's going to happen, it's going to happen, it's going to happen.


• There are going to be people in this tribulation period who do not take...

Here you have groups of Christians who have a different viewpoint of what the Bible says about Israel.

You have one event and you have three very different points of view about what they hear.

People view what they see and hear through their own grid of thinking.

And how you see it will depend upon who you are, and what you believe and who you follow

Written by Charles E. Whisnant 12 01 07 and checked over for clarity as possible by Charity

Of course clarity of though is not possible usually when I put together this kind of thought.
You need to read Bill Moyer’s Journey transcript on the Middle East Peace Talk to have a clear understanding of what I was trying to report.

And you would likely need a better understanding of the situation involving my current situation to have a better perspective of what I am saying as well.

HOW YOU SEE IT WILL DEPEND UPON WHO YOU ARE, AND AND WHAT YOU BELIEVE, AND WHO YOU FOLLOW.

part one

^

I lost my position at my church, and it was how leadership was looking at what I was doing and what others were thinking.

-

Its a matter of perception of how they view what they were seeing, and hearing and what they were thinking.

I have taken Biblical Counseling in my master program, and I have taken several courses on "HOW TO UNDERSTAND PEOPLE" OR "HOW TO GET ALONG WITH DIFFICULT PEOPLE." I didn't take a test on how well I learned how to do that, I must say.

I need the Tammy Moore's program on how to deal with personality within a business or setting of people. Boy, do I need that. She has offered to give me some help.

I need to buy the book: Everyday Mind Reading: Understanding What Other People Think and Feel by William Ickes, a psychologist who examines "empathic accuracy"--the mind's potential to intuit what other people are thinking and feeling.

He give an illustration of a person who wanted to sell his photos. This man was told that his photos had to appeal to all three groups: the seeing people, the feeling people, and the hearing people.

People have different ways of communicating their experiences - some express themselves in pictures, others talk about how things sound to them, and others speak about how things feel.

-

What people think about an unjust event:

-

Toward a better understanding of the phenomenology of experiences of injustice. This is an article about the cognitive processes which are elicited by the perception of an unjust event, or for that matter, any event that occurs in our life or that we see on TV, or in real life, be they just or unjust.


In reading my last e-mail, I was just amazed how I am perceived by some people and how one or two comments can change a person’s thinking about you altogether. I have never really bought into the policy that you need to act a certain way in order to get people to believe what you say (even if it’s not necessarily true!) Though I have wondered how people judge you for how you make a statement versus the substance.

HOW PEOPLE PROCESS IN THEIR MINDS

I wonder how people process in their minds how they are going to view an event.

For example:

• How they see the GOP presidential debate this week with Mitt Romney and Rudy Giuliani and Mike Huckabee, who are the others?
  
• THE BILL MOYER’S JOURNAL - THE MIDDLE EAST PEACE
  

This morning at 3 a.m. I was watching Bill Moyer’s Journal. Lobbies’ Role in the Middle East Peace. And a panel had the following to say about U.S. policy toward Israel and the Palestinians

Three questions were asked

• What policy should the U.S. adopt towards Israel and the Palestinians?
• To what extent do you think lobbies like the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) and Christians United For Israel (CUFI) influence government policy in the Middle East?
• How do candidates’ relationships with these lobbies and positions regarding Israel and the Palestinians affect your voting decisions?
  
• Footnote:
  Christians United for Israel is a national Christian grassroots movement focused on one issue: supporting Israel. Although we are less than two years old, we are spreading like a wildfire and are changing the nature of support for Israel in America. YOU can part of this national Christian grassroots movement. YOU can make a difference for Israel.
  
• Both movements have two different view points on Israel and the Palestinians. And both have different views how the United States should be involved in the peace talks.

Both of these groups have an opinion as how they view what the U.S.A is doing about the Middle East. On Monday I will post part two.

POINT:

• How you process in your mind what you believe about what you are hearing, or seeing, could be the truth or not the truth. On the public arena or in the church, people are judging on what they see and hear, comments you make, or actions you take, and they may be right or wrong how they process that in their minds.

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