WHAT IS THE PRINCIPLE THAT WE SHOULD USE TO DETERMINE GOD’S WILL?

Part Two

Do we just wait and see how God is going to work out His will? That is, we just go about our daily activities and planning and then just wait and see how God is going to get it done?

Are there biblical scriptures that will guide us to discover the will of God in this matter in our church?

Is there a difference between waiting on God to act sovereignly in our church, or do we seek to know how God want us to act?

Does God have a determined will for a local church, that will be and that alone will happen? No. His will is often not obeyed. His determined will cannot be thwarted or stopped by anything. And a lot of behaviors, actions and decisions that are made in the local church are not God’s reveled will for the church.

God is sovereign over all things and yet disapproves of many things? How is this? God’s Will of Decree, or Sovereign Will

John Piper points out: "The will of God: it is God’s sovereign control of all things. We will call this His "sovereign will" or His "will of decree." It cannot be broken. It always comes to pass. Daniel 4:35

There is another will of God: in the Bible is what some call His "will of command, or preceptive will" His will commands us to do His will. . We have His commandments. This is the will of God we can disobey and fail to do. I Thess 4:3, God very specificcally names what he commands us not to do. Sexual immorality. But so many do not obey. I Thess 5:18 the command is "To give thanks in all circumstances:, this is the will of God." But many do not do this will of God.

• God’s will of decree or His sovereign will shall come to pass whether we believe in it or not. His preceptive (giving instructions) of command can be broken, and is every day.

God could, if He desired to, stop any event of human beings if He willed. He is sovereign, but for reasons we don’t understand, He doesn’t.

His sovereign will is invincible, and His preceptive will of command, His giving instructions can be grievously broken.

The church leaders need then to have a discerning spirit, a mind that has been transformed by the renewal of their minds. Their minds need to be set upon the Word of God in order to know the will of God.

In order to discern the revealed will of God and then do them, requires Romans 12:2. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind., that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect."

It would seem here in this verse to say sometimes we discern God’s will correctly and other times we miss it. And it’s going to test us to know God’s will. So we can miss the will of God in matters of the church. And I would say often that does happen.

A renewing reconditioning refurbishing, revitalizing replenishing of mind, to know the Word of God reveals the principles upon which to make a decision that is in the will of God.

God does not tell us who we are to marry. God does not tell us what color to paint the church building. We are not told what to call Bible Study, Sunday School or Discipleship Hour.

God doesn’t point out who is to be a deacon, or teacher, or elder, but He does give us enough principles in the Scriptures to help us discern His will. It’s not necessarily waiting to see how God will work out His will. It’s God who is letting you discern His will through the principles He has set forth in the Scriptures.

What is necessary is that we have a renewed mind, that is so shaped and so governed by the revealed will of God in the Bible, that we see and assess all relevant factors with the mind of Christ, and discern what God is calling us to do. We are just not going to hear God’s voice saying to do this or that.

God’s aim is a new mind, a new way of thinking and judging, not just new information. We do not need new information to determine God’s will, we need a new mind which is fixed on God.
If we are going to know and obey God’s revealed will, we are going to have to have a Christ like mind. We need our hearts and minds to be like Christ. Make a tree good and the fruit will be good. Matthew 12:33.

And we need the Holy Spirit to lead us into Christ-exalting truth and work in us truth-embracing humility, in order to obey God’s revealed truth.

Most of what we do and our actions are not premeditated, they just spill over from our mind. Attitudes, thoughts, actions are generally spontaneous. Thus we need to have a renewed heart and mind that what spills out will be the mind of Christ.

Would finding God’s will for a pastor of a church be more important than, let’s say, seeking a career? Are we to look for hidden clues to what God wants? Are we to try to gather all the information we can and make up a composite picture and make a decision based on a judgment as to what He appears to be saying at a particular time?

God is not asking us to discover His arrangement for the next decision we are going to make. It’s not the "horoscope mentality" Let’s see if we can find some elements in the Bible that would give us an idea of what to do.

• GO TO THE WORD
  God’s will is not a "Tom and Jerry" game. We are to go to the Word of God "which is able to build you up." 2 Timothy 3:15-17 Paul tells Timothy, know the Word which is needed for growth and ministry. Finding God’s will is a matter of understanding His Word.

You just do not wait for God’s will to be accomplished for your life or the life of the church. I have often said that knowing God’s will is hard work. When you are a good student of Scripture you generally become good sound decision makers. And understanding God’s Word, from the KJV is hard work. It’s a life long process, and after nearly fifty years of reading the Bible I have yet to complete the course. But I do believe I have gained some ability to know God’s will.

Who do we consider excellent and godly people in our church? Those who have evidently lived out God’s will with all its satisfaction and fruitfulness. And we discover that they are those who have been indefatigable, hard-working, unconquerable students of Scripture-- with a passion to understand it correctly.

• Unquestionable in this pursuit of biblical understanding is the commitment to obey God’s will. Study is not simply for the purpose of appreciating doctrine in the abstract. The energetic searching for biblical truth, the daily meditation on the Word, and the striving for sound interpretation are useful only if compelled by a yearning to please the Lord, and submit to His wishes.

Drafted by Charles E. Whisnant, October 11, 2006 Checked by Charity Whisnant October 12, 2006 Posted by Charles E. Whisnant, October 13th 2006

WHAT HAPPENS NEXT WILL BE ACCORDING TO GOD’S TIMING AND PURPOSE.
Part One

God’s eternal plan will be fulfilled in a timely manner and according to God’s eternal decree and purpose. He has already established His purposes for all eternity.

He will bring about the salvation of all His elect, which was established before the foundation of the world. He will return and establish His Earthly Kingdom in His already planned time. The end of time and the beginning of Eternity is already set in His plan. He is not slack in His promises or in His already designed purposes for mankind and His glory.

This is called by theologians as God’s Decreed Will and has to do with His purposes and plans. These plans will not be changed or hindered from their accomplishments. God’s Decree will be sovereignly fulfilled.

So what happens next will be according to God’s timing and purposes speaks of His Eternal Purposes. For example the Rapture or the Second Coming.

The purpose of this article is to address: How do we know God’s will in the responsibilities of the church?

Let’s review the Wills of God before we get into the issue of God’s Will and Purposes for the Local Church.

• THERE ARE THREE MEANINGS OF THE WILL OF GOD
  1A Sovereign decretive* will, the will by which God brings to pass whatsoever He decrees. This is hidden to us until it happens.
  (*Having the force of a decree; pertaining to a decree.)
  
• 2A Preceptive* will is God's revealed law or commandments, which we have the power but not the right to break.
  (*Of the nature of or expressing a precept; mandatory. Giving instructions; instructive)
  (*Of, relating to, or expressing a rule or principle that prescribes a particular course of action or conduct)
  
• 3A Will of disposition* describes God's attitude or disposition. It reveals what is pleasing to Him.
  (*The power or liberty to control, direct, dispose) (state of mind)
  

GOD GUIDES us first through his Word, then through our heartfelt desires, then the wise counsel of others, and then our circumstances. At that point we must rely on our own sound judgment…… . God gave each of us a brain, and he expects us to put it to good use.- Bruce K. Waltke, Finding the Will of God

R.C. Sproul said this about the Will of God
"The Bible is deeply concerned about the will of God---His sovereign authority over His creation and everything in it. When we speak about God's will we do so in at least three different ways. The broader concept is known as God's decretive, sovereign, or hidden will. By this, theologians refer to the will of God by which He sovereignly ordains everything that comes to pass. Because God is sovereign and His will can never be frustrated, we can be sure that nothing happens over which He is not in control. He at least must "permit" whatever happens to happen. Yet even when God passively permits things to happen, He chooses to permit them in that He always has the power and right to intervene and prevent the actions and events of this world. Insofar as He lets things happen, He has "willed" them in this certain sense."

It is the godly person who meditates on God's law day and night. While we seek to be "led" by the Holy Spirit, it is vital to remember that the Holy Spirit is primarily leading us into righteousness. We are called to live our lives by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. It is His revealed will that is our business, indeed, the chief business of our lives.

With this background in mind let me try to address this matter of seeking God’s will for the local church. Is there a difference between seeking God’s will in a matter, and let’s see how God works out His purposes for the church."

When we say, "We are seeking God’s Will in this church matter." What does this mean.?
"We are praying that the Lord will give us the right pastor for this church." What does this mean, and how does God accomplish His will for this request? Does this mean that the man that comes to the church is really God’s choice?

"What is the will of God in this particular, unique situation in which we find our selves in?"
Said another way.....

What does it mean when one says "we will wait and see how the Lord’s will will work out?"
In Part Two On Friday....
Drafted by Charles E. Whisnant October 11, 2006 Checked by Charity Whisnant Posted 10-12-06

PART TWO HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOU HAVE THIS CHRISTIAN GRACE of HUMILITY by Charles E. Whisnant

To have a spirit of humility I believe would be to be veiled over with a spirit of gratitude about what the Lord has seemed to have done in your life and ministry. Acknowledgment of the fact the you know in your mind, it’s the Lord who for His glory has given evidence of His blessings upon the ministry in which He has called you to perform.

When I have written these almost sixty articles, I confess that I have nothing to glory in. But to say that I am a nobody just might be true, but it’s not an act of humility The purpose of even writing them has been an act of humility. (Or stupidity, absurdity, senselessness, incompetence) For in reality they show a lot of weakness on my part. When you have been in as many places and worked for a lot of churches and pastors, as I have, it should indicate you have a behavior problem or some kind of difficulty with ministry.

So when you are asked about your life’s work, and you put them down on paper, or Word Perfect, it’s not a lack of humility that you do so. I have with purpose written what I have comprehended to be true. I have not tried to lift up myself in anything that I have done. The truth of the facts are, in analogy with other pastors/teachers/writers, etc. I would rate about dead last. My life words and work pale in comparison with most people. But that itself is not humility to even to say that.

I AM JUST A PEA IN A POD, "there is little real humility coming through that sarcasm, mockery, or humor"

HUMILITY
I believe the course that my life has taken me over the last fifty eight years has been with a lot of humility, and absurdity, and incompetence, and stupidity, and that also it is filled with failures and successes. I have done some of the most irresponsible things in this course of life, but on the other hand from the time of my salvation, I have had a consciousness that was Godward.

My mind set has always been with the view point of the presences of Christ in all I think and do.

I generally view the events in my life as the results of choices I have made I have always tried to do what I believed the Lord would want me to do. There was lack of wisdom, maybe, but nevertheless a choice that was made with the Lord in mind.

I love sharing what the Lord has put on my mind, it’s a mind set that has been there since 1963 when I was a Youth Pastor at Roanoke Baptist Temple. I have always wanted to teach and share what I have learned. It’s imbedded in my mind. It’s a chip that was planted there by the Lord I believe. I learned to share and to disciple and teach not only my self but others.

I love to be seen with a Bible in my car when I go to the drive thru. When I go to church I love to carry a notebook. I cannot take trip anywhere without three or six binders of articles. That doesn’t mean I am not humble. Some think you should be subdued, debased, embarrassed if you think someone else thinks you know something.

As a matter of fact few people in ministry believe you know anything. Why should they! You need to be a John MacArthur, or John Piper, or a Charles Swindoll. I am glad they write books and have tapes of their sermons.

But the Lord in His wise counsel has chosen me, Charles E. Whisnant, to be His servant, and to do and be as He has chosen, and I have tried to be that kind of person. No less or no more. I don’t think more exceedingly of myself than what you see. I desire to be the best that I can be, to know as much as I can learn. Admiration? Only in the fact that I have never quite quit, or given up.

Humility might be, knowing yourself as you truly are, but never letting others see you sweat, agonize, or perspire, boast, exaggerate, glory in your failures or success.

Humility might be, embracing how God made you, and accepting the role in life that you believe is what the Lord has mapped out for you.

Humility might be to show grace in life’s events.

• "I know that whenever God chooses a man for the ministry, and means to make him useful, if that man hopes to have an easy life of it, he will be the most disappointed mortal in the world. From the day when God calls him to be one of his captains, and says to him, "See I have made thee to be a leader of the hosts of Israel," he must accept all that his commission includes, even if that involves a sevenfold measure of abuse, misrepresentation, and slander. We need greater soul-exercise than any of our flock, or else we shall not keep ahead of them. We shall not be able to teach others unless God thus teaches us. We must have fellowship with Christ in suffering as well as fellowship in faith. Still, with all its drawbacks, it is a blessed service, and we would not retire from it. Did we not accept all this with our commission? Then we should be cowards and deserters if we were to turn back. These castings down of the spirit are part of our calling. If you are to be a good soldier of Jesus Christ, you must endure hardness. You will have to lie in the trenches, sometimes, with a bullet lodged here or there, with a sabre-cut on your forehead, or an arm or a leg shot away; where there is war, there must be wounds, and there must be war where there is to be victory." (C. H. Spurgeon)
• "I cannot agree with those who say that they have 'new truth' to teach. The two words seem to me to contradict each other; that which is new is not true. It is the old that is true, for truth is as old as God himself" -- Charles Spurgeon

Drafted by Charles E. Whisnant October 08, 2006 Checked by Charity

THE ISSUE OF HUMILITY
How do we know if we have this Christian Grace?
Part One by Charles E. Whisnant

• humility
  a prominent Christian grace (Rom. 12:3; 15:17, 18; 1 Cor. 3:5-7; 2 Cor. 3:5;Phil. 4:11-13). It is a state of mind well pleasing to God (1 Pet. 3:4); itpreserves the soul in tranquillity (Ps. 69:32, 33), and makes us patient undertrials (Job 1:22). Christ has set us an example of humility (Phil. 2:6-8). Weshould be led thereto by a remembrance of our sins (Lam. 3:39), and by thethought that it is the way to honour (Prov. 16:18), and that the greatestpromises are made to the humble (Ps. 147:6; Isa. 57:15; 66:2; 1 Pet. 5:5). Itis a "great paradox in Christianity that it makes humility the avenue toglory."
  Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary

Humility as to do with a state of mind well pleasing to God. What I believe it means is one has a sense all we are and know is from God and for the Glory of God. I believe it’s about the Glory of God, rather than our glory.

Is it about thinking you are nothing, knowing, and acting like you are nothing? I don’t think so at all. Does it mean you act like you are a dummy? No. Does it mean that you give the idea that you know nothing about the subject at hand? No. Does it mean you give the idea to others that you have little ability to accomplish the task? No.

Does it mean you don’t get excited about what you would like to do or say? No.
The perception of one who is humble is one of observance, not necessarily one of reality.

What should one observe in a person in whom true humility does exist?

It is a state of mind well pleasing to God. It’s a mind set that recognizes Christ is the supreme purpose of all that we do and think. It’s a mind set, that transforms into the behavior of a person who is said to be humble. Acts 20:19 Serving the Lord with all humility of mind"

1 Peter 5:5 ¶ Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

John Gill speaks this to mean: "his is a grace which shows itself in a man's thinking and speaking the best of others, and the worst of himself; in not affecting places and titles of eminence; in being content with the lowest place, and patiently bearing the greatest contempt; in not aspiring to things too high for him, always acknowledging his own meanness, baseness, and unworthiness, ascribing all he is, and has, to the grace and goodness of God, whether it be gifts of nature, providence, or grace: and this is a believer's clothing, not the robe of his justifying righteousness before God, but is a considerable part of his inward garment of sanctification, which is in the sight of God of great price; and makes a large show in his outward conversation garments before men, and renders him lovely and amiable: it is an ornament to him, which is precious with God, and recommends him to the esteem of men, and the religion and Gospel he professes, and his profession of it "

"it may denote the retaining of this grace in constant exercise, so as never to be without it; and to be clothed or covered with it, is always to have it on, and in exercise, in every action of life, in all our deportment before God and men, in all public and religious worship, and throughout the whole of our conversation, in the family, in the world, or in the church."

Acts 20:19 Serving the Lord with all humility of mind,
"being conscious to himself of his own weakness and insufficiency in himself for such service; no ways elated with those excellent and extraordinary gifts bestowed upon him; ascribing all his success to the power, grace, and Spirit of God; treating no man with contempt and disdain; nor lording it over God's heritage, or claiming a dominion over the faith of men; nor seeking honor nor riches for himself, nor even what he had a just right unto, a maintenance from the people; but labored with his own hands, and to his own and the necessities of others:" John Gill.

Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, i.e. you are conscious yourself of your own weakness and insufficiency in yourself for the ministry that the Lord has called you to. When the Lord does give you success, then you need to say, the Lord gave the increase and the ability, and the empowerment, to accomplish the Lord’s will. CEW.

We have enough failures in our life not to get proud in ourrself. There is success from the world’s point of view that is not to the glory of Christ. There are ministries that appear to be successful that I believe are not for the glory of the Lord.

The issue seems to be when someone asks you about your ministry or life. What do you say? "Oh, I am nothing, it’s all what the Lord has done!" Is that being humble? No.

Is asking John MacArthur to give us some insight into the ministry of Grace to You, or Grace Community Church, or himself, is it humility to say, "I had nothing to do with the purpose and plan of God, He did it all" To a degree that would be right. But to give a Shepherd’s Conference Workshop to 400 pastors/teachers would be right too. But when I talked with John, he seemed to have a pleasant spirit. He took time to talk to me, just before he preached that evening. As a matter of fact he let me hold his Bible and view his notes for his sermon. Great experience.

Drafted by Charles E. Whisnant October 05, 2006
Checked by Charity Whisnant October 10, 2006

DETERMINING THE SITUATION AT FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH

• The gospel is: you are more sinful and flawed than you ever dared believe yet you can be more accepted and loved than you ever dared hope at the same time because Jesus Christ lived and died in your place." Tim Kller on the
• Gospel.

Part four The training and experience of some seventeen years I was bringing to FBC to use
for the glory of the Lord, to build His (Christ) church, to win folks to the Lord.

One of the first sermons I preached at FBC was "God’s Victory Gardens." Mrs. Elizabeth Dennison really loved that message. God will give us victory in our church if we allow the Lord to guide us, and we are obedient to His will.

I was wondering why people were not coming to church. Why after twenty-five years the attendance was as low as it was? Those in the church in those first few months were good people. We had some good folks who loved the Lord, and I think they were wanting to see people saved and the church to grow. We had some talented couples in the church, too. I don’t know that I saw any major concerns with the people when I first came. I believed they were going to be ready for leadership and some direction that would bring about growth.

Any action that I took was with the belief that those in the church were ready to work and accomplish our objectives. Naturally you are going to use ideas that you have been trained to do. I thought we were doing rather well in our approach to ministry.

This church was your normal small town church, good people, who had come to this church for some time, and had several pastors. As is in these small churches, the pastors had to work in a secular job to make a living. The pastors loved the Lord and mostly their training was self taught. The orginial pastor said, "I just use the Bible, and preach fifteen minutes." And that is what he did. As a footnote, he was present at the churches 50th anniversary. That does say something about his love for the Lord.

I would think that the folks believed "What are we doing wrong? We love our little church family, and we are happy with how things are going." I think. They were happy with a fifteen minute sermon, lots of singing and good fellowship! Come to church on Sunday and go home until the next week.

I love keeping records about results. (I left all my records there when I left the church). There were few recorded records, except the ones that Ethel York had. I do think there were over fifty plus members. But most never came in the last ten years.

Then I came. Change, as I knew, was not easy and most of the time not wanted. "Let us alone, we are doing just fine, stay out of our lives." We have a small group in a small town and that is the way we like it. But I have contended that these folks were a product of the leadership that was in the church. The church body does not go any further than its leadership.

When we arrived in Altoona, Marvin Mann was in the church, he had been a pastor. He was asked to pastor the church before I came, but he didn’t want to. But when I came, he stayed and we asked him to be the associate pastor, and teach the Adult class. He went to college at Baptist Bible Seminary in Springfield. Much like Bible Baptist Seminary in Arlington. So generally we were of the same mind set. All was well those first two years. Because I was a Hylesite in my approach and preaching. Marvin really supported us, and he helped the people in the church to learn how to take care of the pastor.

Naturally, we wanted to see people saved, and baptized and see the church grow, spiritually and in attendance. You would have thought that the best way to have people come to church was through the Bus Ministry. FBC in Hammond was bringing in 10,000 on the buses. Chicago had 1 million people too. We didn’t have a bus or van. And I thought that we needed trained workers and teachers to see us do a good job.

By this time of our ministry I was not excited about promotional programs just to get people to come to church once. I thought the best way was through the preaching, not a lot of promotions. Yet we did have some in those early years.

What I believed we needed to do to have a good ministry, was at first not well received in those first few months. (I have addressed that issue in another post). Once those issues were confronted and changed, and the first group of people left the church, we began to see the church body come together.

We were only in the first phase of ministry at FBC. What I was doing and thinking was a result of Seminary in Arlington, and Hyles. And for awhile we really were doing quite well.
What I failed to understand was the folks in Altoona, Kansas were not ready for change. They were not used to strong leadership. And I changed all that. I was looking for change. They were just happy to be in a church service.

Like many churches that are small, you have the core group who stay no matter what happens, and then you have others who will come and leave. You always have a group of folks who like to control and rule. Always.

I had the mentality that Christians lived a certain way. Like your typical fundamental independent Baptist preacher, I couldn’t preach a sermon that did not address some sin that I believed needed to be corrected. Much of the preaching was not Bible but what I believed the people should be doing and living and acting.

I wanted to be in charge. I wanted to control the whole program of the church. I wanted growth, and to see people saved. But I also realized that this was Altoona, Kansas a small town. I knew that was not going to happen overnight, if ever.

I thought if I preached hard enough, long enough, and planned enough, we would see a great church for the Lord. I began to put out a nice church paper weekly. I started recording my messages each week. I tried to visit the folks regularly. And I wanted to try to get the church building up to par as to its appearance. I invited some missionaries to come and share their love for the Lord. I had some good groups of singers from some good colleges to come. This was really quite good. We were rolling I believed. We had a yearly revival. We had VBS for the kids.

I believe I am correct, we had at least one new person to come to our Sunday Morning service for the next two years. Several people were saved and baptized and joined the church. Our attendance was growing on Sunday morning.

But in those early days, well years, I was rather, straight forward in my approach. I am told I didn’t have a lot of charm. I spoke sometimes loud, and talked before I thought. I made decisions based upon what I believed was right, even if it made some people mad.

One of many examples: I was asked by a couple if I would pray at the Senior High Prom. I said I couldn’t, and that our children would not be allowed to go. That was not well received, as you can imagine. Then there was the Hyles dress code and long hair code. That really was a problem for years. But we had some great lovely people who were patient with me over the years. They loved Charity I guess, and didn’t want to lose her friendship. But I thought all this was normal for fundamental preachers.

The members really took good care of us. There was no question that they loved us. Even in those first few years. They were willing to try anything I would suggest.

At the very start, I had to work at another job. I started working at Hillcrest Nursing Home, in Fredonia, and for the next ten years I enjoyed working there. I went through three administrators and about 100 employees, and hundreds of wonderful senior citizens, that I dearly loved. And even a few employees came to church. Regina Nobert, one of the sweetest members we had, came and was saved.

I guess I could go on and on, telling some great blessings from the Lord, and some of the dumb things I tried, and the love the folks gave Charity and me and the kids, but I will close this out for a while.

I would like to thank those beginning years members: Mrs. Elizabeth Dennison, Wilford and Ethel York, Bernard and Doris Morton, Mrs. Bernice Fail, Allen and Toni Barnhart, Marvin and Phyllis Mann, Allen and Cec Nunnenkamp, Jim and Marilyn Farmer, Alana Douglas, Christy Heaton, Mike and Nancy Nunnenkamp, Pete and Mabel Lour, Lucille Morgan, Donna Cornwell., Royce and Loretta Lockhart, David and Pam Lockhart, Joe and Sue Costen, From March 1980 to about July 1982.

Drafted by Charles E. Whisnant October 5th 2006 Posted October 6th 2006 Checked by Charity Whisnant

TOZER WROTE: "FAILURE AND SUCCESS: TUNE THE STRINGS

part three: Those first months at first baptist church, altoona, kansas

"Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the eldership. Meditate on these things; give yourself entirely to them, that your progress may be evident to all. I Timothy 4:14-15"

Now as I look back to those yonder years, those first few months as Pastor of FBC in Altoona, Ks.

Tozer wrote: Failure and Success: Tune the Strings. Which describes those in ministry that have been gifted, but have to confess total failure from year to year! He mentions Christians who have not exercised their spiritual gifts, and talents and capacities. Tozer says they have yet to exercise the discipline of girding up the mind and spiritual potential in order to make the necessary progress in the Christian life

Tozer thinks they have abilities but they are not disciplined. "They have a fine mind but it is not sustained . He is like a man with a treasured Stradivarius violin that has never been put in tune. He has never taken time to sit down and tune that priceless instrument, therefore he gets no melody and harmony from it."

Success or Failure in ministry is often viewed differently. You could be successful as a Youth Pastor and be fired. And you will encounter the concept that you are a failure.

You can be successful and get lazy in your preparedness. You can get lazy to maintain the discipline that helps you become successful The reverse is true, you can have failure, and then become discouraged and stop the discipline of girding yourself up to discipline yourself to successful ministry.. You can think you are successful and stop the process of growing in your giftedness, and in your field of ministry.

But living the Christian life, as well as in any field of work, you continue to discipline yourself to learn and grow.

I WILL LIST TEN DISCIPLINES I HAVE DISCOVERED I NEED TO REMEMBER

1. Never quit working to become the best you can be.
2. Use what you have to do your best-- don’t wait to get the best before you use it.
3. When you have failure, real failure or perceived failure, don’t quit.
4. Not letting someone else make the decision whether you have success or failure.
5. Examine your motives to see if they are Christlike in nature.
6. Never walk into a church, without checking out the class rooms, the pastor’s office, the secretary’s office, the print office, pick up a church bulletin, and any information that you think you can use in the future.
7. Never assume any thing. Just because someone says something, doesn’t mean it’s true.
8. Always acknowledge you need to continue to discipline your mind to learn.
9. I have discovered that I only know about 1% of what I think I know.
10. Generally my wife is right. Check her out for information and feelings about ministry.

I am sure there are many more disciplines I need to continue to check out daily.

NEVER GET DISCOURAGED WHEN YOU ARRIVE AT A CHURCH.

Now the Whisnant’s have been in Ceder Lake Indiana, I have a two jobs in the secular world. My son Eric is in a great Christian school. I am having a blast going to Hyles-Anderson’s College, some 3000 students, and we love FBC of Hammond, a church of 20,000. It’s addictive for sure.

We arrived for ministry in Altoona, Kansas. It was a church with about twenty people in a town of 500 people. (twenty attending , membership was higher) Once it was a very prosperous town, but now it’s run down.. The church building needed a lot of work.. The parsonage was very old, and the salary is about 80% less than what you were getting. You learn that the last five men who came to check out the church left as early as they could.. Mrs. York recorded those events very well.

My first point of view when I arrived in Altoona, those first few months, much changed in the next year.

You arrive and discover that, for the most part, you have little in common with the people in the church. I am totally a city person, in a totally farming environment. I don’t fish, hunt, shoot, pick corn, or drive a Chevy or Ford truck. I wear a three piece suit and do not wear farmers’ bib overalls. I preach from the Bible for an hour, and the content is full of theological significance.

The people are used to very lay terms and fifteen minutes sermons. I take notes to the pulpit, and they are thinking, "what is he talking about" And none of these people are really Kansas Rednecks! I thought maize was short corn. I didn’t know what soybeans were. I had no idea what alfalfa was-- well I knew he was that boy on the Little Rascals. Oh I could go on this same line I am sure for another page or two. But you might get the impression of what I am saying.

I was a take charge person. Let’s get this project done now! Consent to doing it right and the best that is reasonable. I am in your face with the truth as I know it. Here are the plans for growth and getting the building up to standard. Shall I go on? I sounded like a football coach who has taken over as coach for Kansas. I said, "we will have a record of nine wins and one loss, (to Ohio State) in the next year." Funny.

I am now the pastor of a twenty five year old church program that has averaged seventeen people in those years. They topped out with thirty-five people one year when they had a group of people who were a split from another church. And I am going to bring this church program up to par in the next year. This church has had how many coaches, oh preachers? Ten I believe. What did I know that they didn’t know!

When you attend the Hyles Pastor’s School several times, and the TRBC Super Conference, you will get this disorder. "Hyles Growth Disorder".

Maybe if I had gone to Roanoke, Virginia, or coached Virginia Cavaliers Football team which has eleven assistant coaches and say "next year we will be nine and one," that would be possible. Maybe if I had pastored a church in Roanoke like Fellowship Baptist, I could believe an attendance of over 500 plus.

The people in FBC Altoona would say, "Charles, this is not FBC in Hammond, this is not Hammond, Indiana. You are thinking bigger than we are." You are reaching over our heads with all your teaching and preaching and ideas." .

Drafted by Charles E. Whisnant

Checked by Charity Whisnant

THOSE FIRST FEW MONTHS AT FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH, ALTOONA, KANSAS Part Two

Having come from Jack Hyles church, I was set to go. I came in with the idea that I could change this church into a real Independent Baptist FBC Hammond Hyles Church. Yep, this is true.

I made a few recommendation that I though would help the church. (1) All workers and teachers should be members of the church (2) I would lead the church and not the women. (3) I would preach the fifth Sunday of the Month rather than having a fellowship. (4) Leaders should not be having Mormons in their home for classes . Just a few changes you know.

After about a month, there were a few who didn’t like all these ideas. There was a stir in the flock of sheep. Yep. Charity was ready to leave. I was ready to leave. I don’t know about the kids.

The adult teacher didn’t understand why he had to join the church, the song leader didn’t understand why he could not have Mormon classes in his home, and the youth workers couldn’t understand why they had to be accountable to the Pastor. I was in shock of course.
So I believe we called for a meeting, and we had a rather good turn out for this meeting. I made a speech: "I have come to Altoona, believing that you believed the Lord wanted me to pastor this church. I am here believing this also. Altoona is only a small town of 500 people, and a small county. I don’t need to stay here, $50 dollars a week is not enough for me to stay. (I was making 10 times that at Pullman Standard.) If you don’t want me to be the Pastor of this church, and lead this church as I believe the Lord would desire, than we will leave, no problem."

I had just came from the great FBC of Hammond, Ind. I had seen and studied the ministry of that great church. You would think that would have given me some ability to lead a church. I had studied from the Thomas Road Baptist Church, in Lynchburg, Va. I had a suitcase full of ideas and thoughts to bring to the church for church growth. I really was in shock that some of the folks just didn’t get it.

I asked for those who disagreed with me, to voice their opinion and say what was on their mind.

I was ready to leave for sure, and so was Charity. I believe there was a vote taken, I can’t remember, but anyway, more wanted to follow the leadership of the pastor than the leadership of those few who were in charge before I came. So those people left, and the rest stayed. So we stayed for the next sixteen years. And we are very thankful for our wonderful time there.
Those who stayed were willing to put up with me, and my preaching and leadership. Even Mrs. Ethel York, whose husband was the original deacon of the church stayed, and was a real a pain. Well, she kept me in line for the next few years. She was a great lady anyway. The teacher left, the song leader left, the deacon left, and women left, the youth workers left...... goodness was anyone left. Why did we not leave?

So what is the problem here, Lord?. Hasn’t this been done before. Like Madison Baptist Church in 1971? Had I not learned any skills of leadership in nine years? Why am I not adequate in this role as pastor? Why am I getting people all agitated? Please don’t ask Charity! . It’s actually not in the plan..

After all I was using some of the learning and training, I received at Hyles-Anderson College. I really believed that these principles were very good.

What I learned the next few years about these excellent people in Kansas is they were just like anyone else. Well in some cases they really did outshine other folks I had known–they were very patient with me.

SO WHAT WERE SOME OF THE PRINCIPLES WE WERE TRYING TO DO IN THOSE FIRST FEW YEARS.

What did I think when I came to FBC in Altoona: that I could be a good preacher/pastor to the people in this church? What had I learned that would equip me to do a reasonably good job?
While this church was twenty five years old, you would have believed the church membership would have been well seasoned for church life. I have made the comment, that the church membership is as only as good as they have been discipled by its leadership.

I liked a challenge to undertake the responsibility of a local church body and see spiritual growth and extend their the knowledge of the Lord. When I first came to FBC, I think I had the desires to try to build a church that the Lord would be pleased with. As I have said previously, you are only as good as what you have learned.

What I had learned in Hammond was great, but I wanted to regulate, or temper some of those things I didn’t think were going to work at FBC. I wanted to see growth in number, of course, but in truth I realized that in Altoona, the attendance was not going to be large.

Having visited the surrounding towns. (Fredonia and Neodesha) I learned that there were already a number of good Baptist churches that were doing a rather good job in their town. Thus I decided to work with those whom the Lord would give is in the area of Altoona.

I realized that before we could grow, we needed to do some work on our physical building. Our first project was to get some new pews.

I believed some of the practical suggestions that I learned at Hyles were good. I believe I have already mentioned some of those things I put into effect at FBC.

Drafted and Posted by Charles E. Whisnant October 04, 2006
Checked By Charity F. Whisnant