How many of you have attended an Amillennial prophecy conference?
Calvinism Fellowship, Debate, and Discussion.
- Mhyla Tamayo Tamayo likes this.
- Cale John Bunch I did. We spoke in symbols while there. Marvelous experience. · Like · 6
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Caleb John Bunch I mean, I literally had a blast!
- Charles E. Whisnant Explain how? Where? Caleb John Bunch
- Marty Swearingen Amillenial prophecy conferences do exist btw. I believe Kim Riddlebarger has hosted a few.
- Charles E. Whisnant If you don't believe a millennial exists why would you have one I guess. · 1Marty Swearingen Cause we still believe in interpreting prophecy, even if we disagree on how to interpret it. That's why.
- Marty Swearingen And we believe the millennium exists. We just disagree on the nature of it (whether it is a literal thousand years).
- Payton Dooley You have to go to one, so you can learn how to help the Dispys understand the Bible. LOL ;-)
I'm a former (recovering) Pre-Mill by the way. I saw Jimmy DeYoung in person one time. I ate that stuff up back then. But in retrospect I just shake my head.
- harles E. Whisnant What Amill conference have you attended to explain there is not one?
- Payton Dooley I don't think there is such a conference to disprove Premillennialism. Most folks I know have come to the conclusions they come by reading the Bible. No conference needed.
- Joe Vusich "Prophecy conferences" have been the specialty of Dispensationalist churches for about 150 years. They're generally attended by folks who've already been indoctrinated in Dispensationalist presuppositions and teachings. Most attendees know very little of the eschatological understanding of the church through the ages (as summarized in the historic creeds and confessions) and are therefore unaware how novel and unorthodox Dispensationalism truly is. Typically these conferences emphasize the following:
1) refresher courses in the Dispensationalist method of reading the Bible (Israel and the Christian Church are completely separate entities; Dispensationalist teachers are the only ones who interpret the Bible "literally;" Christ comes first to "rapture" His church and then comes again in glory seven years later; Christ will reign in Jerusalem for 1000 years while memorial animal sacrifices are being performed in the earthly temple, etc.)
2) updates on Dispensationalist variations like the "pre-wrath Rapture," Posttribulationism, Progressive Dispensationalism, who's teaching what, etc.
3) inoculate and warn the attendees against those teachers (especially if they're Reformed and Calvinistic) who "spiritualize" and "allegorize" the Bible, and who allegedly promote "Replacement Theology"
4) teach myths about church history -- e.g., "the early fathers were all premillennial;" "Augustine spiritualized and ruined the church's understanding of eschatology;" "the Reformers didn't reform enouh and simply adopted Roman Catholic eschatology;" "Reformed eschatology is antisemitic," etc.
5) stir up enthusiasm about current events in the Middle East, the European Union, "signs of the times," and so on
6) sell lots of books and recorded messages to bring all of the above back to the local churches
Amillennialist churches don't typically host a lot of prophecy conferences. We emphasize biblical eschatology in our Gospel preaching and teaching, as we seek to advance a more straightforward, accessible, and universally-received understanding of the coming of Christ, the resurrection of the dead, the final judgment, and the age to come. We do occasionally organize special events in which guest speakers who have dedicated themselves to eschatological studies (e.g., Kim Riddlebarger, G.K. Beale) come to minister the fruits of their labors.
- Charles E. Whisnant I would agree that many "Last things:" conferences are so abused. And you are so right that many of the books and movies are so wrong. But with that said, John MacArthur's at the Shepard's' Conference there were 3500 preachers and many were Reformed preachers laid out his position rather clearly. By the way thanks for this site. Then John had a series of six sermons on this topic.
- Kenan Plunk I've never attended one, but I have listened to this weekend lecture series by Kim Riddlebarger which was part of the Westminster Conference Series:
http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?seriesOnly=true...
I have also listened to his Amillennialism 101 lectures.
Reformed Amillennialism Series www.sermonaudio.com 7
- Doug McDonald I have never heard of an amil conference; but then I don't look for them. I have heard of many pre-trib over the years; 'they compass land and sea to make one convert' to their pre-mil dispensational schemes. Doug McDonald Kenan, thanks for sharing that link. I will listen to a few of those. And if I listen to all 5 I'll say I've been to an amil conference. Maybe they will inoculate me against all attempts at making one a MacArthur-ite.
- Stephen Barton I once was going to a pre mill one but it was canceled due to the impending rapture.
- Doug McDonald For decades and decades they have been preaching an 'any moment' rapture. That alone should cause many pre-mil people to rethink this scheme.
I heard one of their popular preachers teach that Paul taught an 'any moment' rapture. He took a part of one verse out of context of course.
- Stephen Barton Macarthur convinced me that the pre mill position wasn't biblical by over doing it. Not sure he would appreciate that but it's true
- Doug McDonald Causes you to wonder if he doesn't have a problem with the fact that he can't convince everyone to believe all that 'he' says. Too many call him father, forbidden by scripture.
- Stephen Barton when he is good he is very good but when he's bad he's horrid.
- Doug McDonald Amen!
- Charles E. Whisnant I could say about Kim Riddlebar what some of you are saying about John MacArthur. I have listen to his position, and to give him credit, he did present his view correctly and he did present the other views correctly. Now with that said, you then have to ask which one do you agree with.
- Stephen Barton I like MacArthur a lot Charles it was one of 5 big churches to visit on my bucket list, but every time the word Kingdom comes up off he goes, in his sermons and in written form. I stopped listening to him for about 10 years because of it. I'd agree with him on the charismatics but in his latest book the first two chapters he just poured scorn on them before dealing with his (our) issues with them. The end of the book is excellent as he finally shows a pastoral concern and shows that he understands continuatists and charismatics to be two different groups.
- Charles E. Whisnant I listen to him every Sunday, and have for the last 30 years. He was in the Gospel of Luke for 10 years, now in John and Acts and he seems to stay in the text. Of course as he as said there are those who come and stay awhile and leave. Which is normal for any church. His books are from his sermons, and Phil Johnson is the editor of his books.
- Stephen Barton yes I know when I went to Grace Community Church Phil Johnson was "preaching" it was then that I realised that you can be excellent at theology and not very good at preaching- so I understand why he is an editor and not a preacher.
- 5 LikeStephen Barton I listen to MacArthur most weeks too I benefit from it but like you and me he has errors. I've probably read most of his books, excluding his commentaries and I have read a fair few of them too.
- Doug McDonald If someone presents 'his' view then he WILL present it correctly since he is presenting 'his' view. But his presenting the other views correctly is impressive. I have not personally heard a pre-trib-er present amil well, although I am sure it has been done.
I listened to one of Kim's tapes, and I will listen to more of them. I like his teaching but I care nothing for 'his' view. - Doug McDonald Wondering if J Mac presents 'Leaky Dispensationalism' correctly or if he is just presenting 'his' view. Or if he goes back and forth.
Here is an example why I look elsewhere for theology, from J Mac: 'Is the Sabbath Binding on Christians Today?' point ...See More
- Doug McDonald I do appreciate a lot about J Mac. Just a little annoyed with those who anytime anything comes up, they want to take you to 'their father', as if the world has been waiting for 'him' for 6000 years. I am not going to write about him again on this thread. Charles E. Whisnant David Jeremiah then would also be good, or Charles Stanndly or Church Swindoll, or Charles Whisnant, or Charles Prince, or Hershel York or Oliver B. Greene, or John R. Rice, or S. Lewis Johnson, and a few others could be mention, Stepen Lawson, or W.B. Robinson.
